Reed Frames In Wheatstone Anglos

[Flip Delport]

Most of the Anglos that I have listed in South Africa (260 of them) have aluminium reed frames. Some of the older ones have brass frames. I prefer the sound of the ones with the brass frames. If brass is better than aluminium, why did Wheatstone change from brass to aluminium?

[Greg Jowaisas]

Flip,

 

While I tend to agree with you in that the brass shoe concertinas I have heard sound better to me than those with aluminum shoes, I think Geoff Crabb, for one, will offer another opinion.

 

I'll let the experts expound but it is my understanding that once stable aluminum alloys bcame available aluminum offered the advantages of easier stamping/machining and weight reduction.

 

The adoption of widespread use of aluminum frames by Wheatstone may also coincide with some other time and money saving practices that affected instrument and sound quality.

 

That said, I cut my anglo teeth on an aluminum shoe Wheatstone that came out of South Africa (#54991) with added and nicely done 8 fold bellows. I've enjoyed its bright, cutting sound and aside from thinking rivetted action might be a plus, still enjoy playing it along with the more expensive vintage concertinas that have come my way in the meantime.

 

Regards,

 

Greg J

[Chris Ghent]

Most of the Anglos that I have listed in South Africa (260 of them) have aluminium reed frames.  Some of the older ones have brass frames.  I prefer the sound of the ones with the brass frames.  If brass is better than aluminium, why did Wheatstone change from brass to aluminium?

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I'd be interested to understand what difference you hear between the two? And how do you separate the differences between the shoe materials from other differences in the instrument construction.

 

Chris

[Stephen Chambers]

It has been my experience that instruments with heavier reed frames tend to sound brighter and crisper, and that includes my Hohner button accordion too, which was made around 1930 with heavy zinc reed plates.

 

Dana Johnson offers a technical explanation for it here on C.net.

 

Aluminium was first used in concertinas by Lachenal & Co., around 1894, to make a lighter instrument, hence producing a 63-key treble that weighed no more than a standard 48-key.

[twisper]

It has been my experience that instruments with heavier reed frames tend to sound brighter and crisper, and that includes my Hohner button accordion too, which was made around 1930 with heavy zinc reed plates.

 

Dana Johnson offers a technical explanation for it here on C.net.

 

Aluminium was first used in concertinas by Lachenal & Co., around 1894, to make a lighter instrument, hence producing a 63-key treble that weighed no more than a standard 48-key.

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Having owned one of these aluminum framed Wheatstones, it occurs to me that there is also a fundamental difference between aluminum reed-frame construction methods and the brass dovetailed reed frames. The aluminum frames are (as far as I can tell) always planted on the surface of the reed pan, held with wax, screws, or spring clips as is the case with Wheatstone. This must present a whole different world of sound transmission as compared to the traditional brass shoes which are literally 'imbedded' in the reedpan via dovetail slots. Has anyone encountered dovetailed aluminum reed frames?........Forrest

[Howard Mitchell]

Having owned one of these aluminum framed Wheatstones, it occurs to me that there is also a fundamental difference between aluminum reed-frame construction methods and the brass dovetailed reed frames. The aluminum frames are (as far as I can tell) always planted on the surface of the reed pan, held with wax, screws, or spring clips as is the case with Wheatstone. This must present a whole different world of sound transmission as compared to the traditional brass shoes which are literally 'imbedded' in the reedpan via dovetail slots. Has anyone encountered dovetailed aluminum reed frames?........Forrest

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Yes. I had a Crabb 30-key Anglo number 18224 with dovetailed aluminium frames. My current Wheatstone 40-key Anglo number 57xxx is the same. The Wheatstone Chemnitzer that I'm minding at the moment is the same although a few of the lower reeds are in rectangular frames screwed to the pan.

 

Howard Mitchell

[JimLucas]

Having owned one of these aluminum framed Wheatstones.... The aluminum frames are (as far as I can tell) always....

As one saying goes, "You don't just jump to conclusions; you pole vault!" How in the world do you justify the leap from "one" to "always"? The fact is that your claim is not true in general, though it may be true for particular models during a particular period.

 

Has anyone encountered dovetailed aluminum reed frames?

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Yes. Many times. in fact, my first good concertina was a 1960's Wheatstone treble English in which all the reed frames were aluminum and of the standard English design, slotted into the reed pan. And "my" second Wheatstone (actually one I found for a friend) was a 20-button anglo from the same period, which also had the slotted-in aluminum reed frames. It's my understanding and experience that this combination of characteristics was fairly standard through the 1950's and '60's, though Wheatstone did experiment with other techniques and materials (e.g., in the "Mayfair" line).

[Greg Jowaisas]

Hi Forrest,

 

In your post you mentioned other methods of fixing reed shoes to the pan other than dovetailing and screwing down the frames. Have you observed these other methods on Wheatstone concertinas?

 

I have three Wheatstones from the 1950s and 60s.

 

The C/G anglo has screwed down aluminum frames. The reeds are secured in the frame by crimping rather than two screws and a clamp.

 

The Bb/F piccolo tuned anglo is eight sided and has a mixture of shoes; aluminum for the lower notes and brass shoes for the highest notes. All shoes are dovetailed into the pan.

 

The 1960s made by Wheatstone for Matusewich english has all aluminum shoes which are set with dovetiling.

 

If you have a different arrangement on your Wheatstone I would be interested in seeing a picture of your reed pan showing how the reed shoes are secured.

 

Regards,

 

Greg J

[Stephen Chambers]

The aluminum frames are (as far as I can tell) always planted on the surface of the reed pan, held with wax, screws, or spring clips as is the case with Wheatstone. This must present a whole different world of sound transmission as compared to the traditional brass shoes which are literally 'imbedded' in the reedpan via dovetail slots. Has anyone encountered dovetailed aluminum reed frames?........

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Forrest,

 

As you will have gathered by now, aluminium reed frames are usually dovetailed, just like brass ones. But it isn't generally realised that a traditional reed pan is a very complex piece of woodwork, and Wheatstone's did try to simplify it, and the reed frame production, at one stage (starting in the late '40's) by doing away with the dovetailing on some of their models. So, as you mention, "The aluminum frames are ... planted on the surface of the reed pan, held with ... screws, or spring clips ...", though I have never seen wax used.

 

Yes, I'm sure that it does affect the sound, though these models are pretty rare in Britain as they nearly all went for export, so I don't have much experience of them. However, I do have one awaiting tuning, and I'm not looking forward to it, those spring clips are a nightmare !

[Greg Jowaisas]

Hi Stephen,

 

Any chance of a picture of those spring clips for our edification?

 

Greg

[twisper]

Having owned one of these aluminum framed Wheatstones.... The aluminum frames are (as far as I can tell) always....

As one saying goes, "You don't just jump to conclusions; you pole vault!" How in the world do you justify the leap from "one" to "always"? The fact is that your claim is not true in general, though it may be true for particular models during a particular period

 

Jim, you might note that I qualified my statement by saying 'as far as I can tell', which limits my comment to my own limited experience. I also enquired for comments from others to learn if there are other methods outside of my experience. .......Cheers, Forrest

[twisper]

Wheatstone's did try to simplify it, and the reed frame production, at one stage (starting in the late '40's) by doing away with the dovetailing on some of their models. So, as you mention, "The aluminum frames are ... planted on the surface of the reed pan, held with ... screws, or spring clips ...", though I have never seen wax used.

 

Yes, I'm sure that it does affect the sound, though these models are pretty rare in Britain as they nearly all went for export, so I don't have much experience of them. However, I do have one awaiting tuning, and I'm not looking forward to it, those spring clips are a nightmare !

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I'm sorry that my post wasn't clear. I was comparing reed plate retention in general to other 'concertinas' that have come my way, Chemnitzer, Italian, German, and English and US made.

My Wheatstone (made in the 40's) had aluminum reed plates set ON the reed pan, located by two steel vertical pins. The reed plates were drilled and slid down onto the reedpan via the pins. Atop the pins were spring clips which secured the plates. It was probably done for economy and mass production. Some reeds were clinched to the plates, and some were clamped. I don't envy your task, Stephen, those clips are a bother! BTW, I'd send photos of the arrangement, but I no longer own it.........F

[Greg Jowaisas]

Thank you for the clarification, Forrest. I had not run across the spring clips before. Your post was an opportunity to learn something new.

 

Welcome to cnet and don't be a stranger! (Don't be afraid to post)

 

Regards,

 

Greg

[kiminca]

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BTW, I'd send photos of the arrangement, but I no longer own it.........F

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I have pictures of your old reed pan....

[twisper]

I have pictures of your old reed pan....

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Is this your idea of blackmail?

[kiminca]

Not blackmail, I don't have it in me. Perhaps if you wanted them, I could send them to you. I read your post and recognize your sign-in from when you sold it. I was quite interested in it at the time, but the price was out of my league. I think with the way the prices have jump in even the last year that I have given up. The concertina that you sold is almost what I am looking for in a vintage.

 

I am currently very happy with my new Edgley. But someday I may have both.....

 

 

Kimberly

[twisper]

Not blackmail,  I don't have it in me.  Perhaps if you wanted them, I could send them to you.  I read your post and recognize your sign-in from when you sold it.  I was quite interested in it at the time........................................  

 

I am currently very happy with my new Edgley.   But someday I may have both.....

 

 

Kimberly

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Thanks for the memory jog, Kim. Although I had deleted the photo from my album files, they were still lurking in my 'sent email' files. I will forthwith present them. Here are some views of a mid 1940's Wheatstone with surface-mounted aluminum reed plates, secured by locating pins and spring clips.

Edited May 26, 2005 by twisper

[Greg Jowaisas]

Forrest,

 

Thanks for the pics and another piece of the puzzle. Most illuminating.

 

Greg J