Concertina Wanted

[A Tina Player]

Hello,

I'm looking for either a jefferies, wheatstone or suttner. It must be in good condition.

E-mail me at dooceydavid@eircom.net or visit my website at www.freewebs.com/daviddoocey.

 

Thanks!

[Paul Read]

I don't know how fast you want it, but I would take a look at the Carroll Concertina site. These instruments have been getting some good reports. The only catch is the waiting list of 3 years (short compared to Dippers though by all reports!).

 

Edited to reflect comments in following postings.

Edited May 9, 2005 by Paul Read

[Frank Edgley]

This is no reflection on anyone, maker or contributer. I am making no judgement on either make of concertina, or the person who stated his comment. However, I'm afraid that some readers of the forum would read the last comment and take it for fact. I hate to be confrontational, but a comment on the relative quality of different makes of concertina requires more empirical evidence than a "probably". Both makes of concertina should be present at the same time to make a valid comparison. At the very least, both makes of concertina should have been played by anyone giving a relative comparison---and even then, it is subjective, unless the differences are marked. Also, what is meant by better? Is it workmanship, maker's experience, tone, response, timbre, or what? I have played both makes, but would be reluctant to publicise my opinions. There are so many factors to be taken into consideration, not the least of which is when the instruments were made. Every concertina maker improves with experience. Some may improve with knowledge and experience, but quality of later instruments may decline due to production demands. "Better" is in the eyes and ears of the beholder and is, for the most part, subjective opinion coloured by perception. Take reeds, for example. The perception, put forth by some and heeded by some neophytes is that English-style reeds are somehow "better" than Italian-style reeds. This misperception is perpetueated by some contributers. I would ask, "What do you mean by "better?" Tone? Response? Volume? IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHO MADE THEM! Just because a reed tongue is held in place in a dovetailed reed frame rather than a rectangular reed frame does not make it "better". Much of the difference between English and Italian style reeds, whether it be tone, timbre or response depends on how it is ground, or profiled. Italian reeds can be ground in different ways, and modern technology has made the best Italian reeds the equal of any English-style reeds in terms of quality of materials and tolerances. What is this rant really about? Maybe I just want to say that we need to be careful with this forum. Many readers look on this as a place where facts can be gathered about concertinas. Opinions are important too, but they need to be based on experience and valid one-on-one comparisons. Then again, publishing comparative opinions about two or more concertina makers may do harm, unjustly, to one of them. Maybe it would be better to say something like, "Why not consider a XXXX concertina? I hear they are very good instruments and may suit your needs."

Edited May 9, 2005 by Frank Edgley

[JimLucas]

...a comment on the relative quality of different makes of concertina requires more empirical evidence than a "probably".

Agreed. 100%.

 

Many readers look on this as a place where facts can be gathered about concertinas.

And not just those who come directly to C.net, whether joining or as guests. The "information" posted here is available to anyone who uses Google or other search engines, and the internet is rife with "borrowed" content. Today's opinion or even speculation becomes -- copied and pasted, probably incompletely and without attribution -- tomorrow's "fact" on the web site of some enthusiatic new player who wants to tell the world all about his amazing discovery... the concertina!

 

And that will in turn be copied.

 

...we need to be careful with this forum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen.

[Paul Read]

Frank,

 

You're quite right. As you say, quality can vary depending on when the concertina was made. I stand justly rebuked with the usual echo and should have left it at suggesting the Carroll be considered.

[Chris Timson]

Take reeds, for example. The perception, put forth by some and heeded by some neophytes is that English-style reeds are somehow "better" than Italian-style reeds. This misperception is perpetueated by some contributers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not better, no. More appropriate for the concertina? Well, maybe. I speak as one who owns and plays concertinas with English reeds (Dipper, Jeffries, Lachenal) and accordion reeds (Herrington, Morse). I like them all, and play them all, but I have to say, when I take it all into account, I like the sound of the English reed in a concertina more than I do the accordion reed. The English reed is, for me, the sound of the concertina. Similarly I like my melodeons to sound like melodeons, and were such a thing to exist, I wouldn't like an English reeded melodeon as much (again I know whereof I speak - remember we own an Accordeaphone, which is basically an English-reeded accordion with an English concertina key layout). I would be really sad if the sound of accordion reeds were to be generally accepted as the "right" sound for concertinas.

 

Frank, I am curious. Let's imagine for a moment that somebody was mass producing English reeds of quality, and that you as a maker could therefore offer English-reeded instruments for at or near the price of your accordion-reeded concertinas. After all, in an infinite universe... Anyway, what would you do? Would you continue to make accordion reeded concertinas, or would you change to English reeds? Or would you offer both? And what would you choose to play yourself?

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

 

Edit:- I've copied this post to a thread that Greg has started in General Discussion, as that is a more appropriate place for it. Frank - if you feel moved to reply, perhaps you could do so there. TIA.

Edited May 9, 2005 by Chris Timson

[bill_mchale]

Not better, no. More appropriate for the concertina? Well, maybe. I speak as one who owns and plays concertinas with English reeds (Dipper, Jeffries, Lachenal) and accordion reeds (Herrington, Morse). I like them all, and play them all, but I have to say, when I take it all into account, I like the sound of the English reed in a concertina more than I do the accordion reed. The English reed is, for me, the sound of the concertina. Similarly I like my melodeons to sound like melodeons, and were such a thing to exist, I wouldn't like an English reeded melodeon as much (again I know whereof I speak - remember we own an Accordeaphone, which is basically an English-reeded accordion with an English concertina key layout). I would be really sad if the sound of accordion reeds were to be generally accepted as the "right" sound for concertinas.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think as we discuss this though, we should keep in mind that there is an awful lot that

goes into what a concertina sounds like. The reeds are only one (Though admittedly

a very important) factor. Even less important is the style of the reeds; anyone who has

ever played a Hohner accordion and compared it to a similar Italian reeded box knows

that different reeds of the same basic design can differ greatly in the tone they produce.

 

I imagine the contrast between English (traditional concertina style) reeds and Italian (accordion style) reeds is most marked to those who own instruments of both types. As someone who plays several button accordions in addition to a Marcus (and soon to add an Edgley to the stable) concertina, I can say with great convidence that a Marcus has a sound that is distinctly more concertina like than Accordion like. This is even true when I play my Saltarelle with only one reed.

 

Now all that being said, I will grant that I find that the old makes, in particular the Jefferies seem to have a specific quality in their sound that is distinct from many of the modern instruments.

 

I guess it all comes down to saying this; if money were no object I would take one of each .

 

--

Bill

[Chris Timson]

[ I can say with great convidence that a Marcus has a sound that is distinctly more concertina like than Accordion like.  This is even true when I play my Saltarelle with only one reed. 

I would expect that. The Australian melodeon maker Pete Hyde makes an instrument he calls a flutina, which among other features has a concertina-style reed pan (although still using accordion reeds) instead of a melodeon-style reed bank. He says that this gives a more concertina-like sound. I'm willing to believe this.

 

Chris

 

PS Speaking of Pete Hyde, I've just had an email from him to say my Anglodeon is in the final stages of assembly. Patience, Chris, patience ...

[ceemonster]

why has an opinion been edited out of the thread, while reams of hectoring, lecturing homilies remain in the replies to the now-unjudgeable original post? if it was mistakenly worded as objective fact, couldn't the original post have been amended to read as an opinon without being subject to a blackout? so long as they are marked as such, opinions are welcome and useful to this reader. there has been no blackout as to past posts, even past threads, trumpeting the "opinion" that one accordion reed maker's boxes sound more like "authentic" concertinas than others, etc., etc---and fair enough! we are all big boys and girls. we are also also consumers. and here in the marketplace of ideas and instruments, we are all old enough to evaluate "opinions," and discuss the relative features and merits of instruments, for ourselves, it seems to me.

[Paul Read]

I edited the posting myself because I agreed with the criticism and didn't want to leave the statement there under my name. Nobody blacked it out.