Ceili vs Clover

[Acqua]

Hi all,

 

I'm finally looking to upgrade my 30 button C/G Rochelle (Wheatstone layout) and have narrowed it down to two. I've heard really good things about the Concertina Connection Clover and was able to stop by the Button Box Since I live in the area and test out their R. Morse & Co Ceili, which I really enjoyed. Anyone have any experience with both or input?

 

Thanks!

[Jim Besser]

13 minutes ago, Acqua said:

Hi all,

 

I'm finally looking to upgrade my 30 button C/G Rochelle (Wheatstone layout) and have narrowed it down to two. I've heard really good things about the Concertina Connection Clover and was able to stop by the Button Box Since I live in the area and test out their R. Morse & Co Ceili, which I really enjoyed. Anyone have any experience with both or input?

 

Thanks!

 

I have a few Morse anglos and really like them. I've played a couple of Clovers, and think they're pretty equivalent in terms of sound and playability.  What sets the Ceilis apart, IMO, is their light weight and their extreme durability. I use mine mostly for Morris dance playing, which means they get jostled, banged and rained on. In 15 years, only one has required service, and that was minor.

[buttonbox21]

I don't have experience with either but I have done business with The Button Box and I can tell you that they are a five star class act. Good people to do business with. I highly recommend them.👍

[Ken_Coles]

I have both (well, the Clover is my wife's). You won't go wrong with either model or either dealer/manufacturer. One may suit your taste more than the other, but you'd need to try both to see what you prefer. You have two ways to address that. You can wait until you have a chance to try each one (NESI was always a good chance for that; we'll see if it happens this year), or just choose one and go for it.

 

Ken

[Dana Johnson]

When The Button Box first started making the Ceili, Rich seriously considered adding weights to it because compared to other concertinas, it was so light.  Just as well they decided to see how people liked it.  The rest, as they say, is history.

Dana

[Acqua]

On 4/18/2021 at 6:56 PM, Ken_Coles said:

I have both (well, the Clover is my wife's). You won't go wrong with either model or either dealer/manufacturer. One may suit your taste more than the other, but you'd need to try both to see what you prefer. You have two ways to address that. You can wait until you have a chance to try each one (NESI was always a good chance for that; we'll see if it happens this year), or just choose one and go for it.

 

Ken

Thanks! What is NESI?

[Acqua]

On 4/18/2021 at 5:26 PM, buttonbox21 said:

I don't have experience with either but I have done business with The Button Box and I can tell you that they are a five star class act. Good people to do business with. I highly recommend them.👍

They are great! That’s where I got my Rochelle

[Acqua]

On 4/18/2021 at 6:56 PM, Ken_Coles said:

I have both (well, the Clover is my wife's). You won't go wrong with either model or either dealer/manufacturer. One may suit your taste more than the other, but you'd need to try both to see what you prefer. You have two ways to address that. You can wait until you have a chance to try each one (NESI was always a good chance for that; we'll see if it happens this year), or just choose one and go for it.

 

Ken

 

1 minute ago, Acqua said:

Thanks! What is NESI?

And would you say the buttons on the clover are a little skinnier? Coming from the Rochelle which has relatively skinny buttons I wonder if that would be an easier transition. I really loved testing the Ceili although I quickly learned those wider buttons would take a little learning adjustment haha

[Ken_Coles]

NESI - Sorry, if you've been here less than a year you haven't seen the long discussions every year of the largest squeeze-box event in North America that I know of, the North East Squeeze In. Usually held on a weekend in September in the Berkshires of western Massachusetts (i.e., not a long way from you), it is the best chance I can think of to see, try (with permission), and compare a lot of different instruments, makes, etc. It may happen this year but the date and venue will differ (our usual venue is closed), or it may be virtual as in 2020. The organizers are working on that now and will post something soon I'm sure at https://www.squeeze-in.org/ .

 

Back on topic: I don't notice such details about the buttons when I'm playing, maybe some do. The Ceili has delrin buttons, which can make quick motion between keys easy for some, but metal-capped buttons as on the Clover as much preferred by others. Details that matter to someone else may not matter to me and vice versa, but I won't go into more minutiae here (it is an endless topic). I've found I can switch button type/feel without any effect (that I notice) on my playing. I even switch between Jeffries and Lachenal layout on anglo with a couple-of-minutes brain reset, so I don't rule out a design detail a priori when choosing among models.

 

Unfortunately, IMO you can't intellectualize a way through this; if one design were clearly superior the others would already be extinct. It is really a matter of feel, how it works for you personally (if it matters at all). So again, you can pick one now (flip a coin?) or wait for a chance to try them both first. Good luck, welcome to the madness.

 

Ceili on left, Clover (built by me from one of the few kits Wim did over a decade ago) on right.

 

Ken

 

[Acqua]

1 hour ago, Ken_Coles said:

NESI - Sorry, if you've been here less than a year you haven't seen the long discussions every year of the largest squeeze-box event in North America that I know of, the North East Squeeze In. Usually held on a weekend in September in the Berkshires of western Massachusetts (i.e., not a long way from you), it is the best chance I can think of to see, try (with permission), and compare a lot of different instruments, makes, etc. It may happen this year but the date and venue will differ (our usual venue is closed), or it may be virtual as in 2020. The organizers are working on that now and will post something soon I'm sure at https://www.squeeze-in.org/ .

 

Back on topic: I don't notice such details about the buttons when I'm playing, maybe some do. The Ceili has delrin buttons, which can make quick motion between keys easy for some, but metal-capped buttons as on the Clover as much preferred by others. Details that matter to someone else may not matter to me and vice versa, but I won't go into more minutiae here (it is an endless topic). I've found I can switch button type/feel without any effect (that I notice) on my playing. I even switch between Jeffries and Lachenal layout on anglo with a couple-of-minutes brain reset, so I don't rule out a design detail a priori when choosing among models.

 

Unfortunately, IMO you can't intellectualize a way through this; if one design were clearly superior the others would already be extinct. It is really a matter of feel, how it works for you personally (if it matters at all). So again, you can pick one now (flip a coin?) or wait for a chance to try them both first. Good luck, welcome to the madness.

 

Ceili on left, Clover (built by me from one of the few kits Wim did over a decade ago) on right.

 

Ken

 

Thanks Ken! Great info. I’ve been on here a few years but am not always the most active so it would be quite easy for me to miss some discussions. And what a coincidence, I’ll be sure to make it to the next NESI! I think I’m leaning towards the clover, I will hopefully make a decision hopefully by the end of the day! Luckily no matter what I have two weeks to get a full refund if it isn’t the right fit. Is there any difference in the delrin vs metal buttons in terms of grip? I find that sometimes when I tend to play for a bit my fingers become a little slippery.

[Ken_Coles]

Unless you have unusual skin (and we have members here who do, maybe they will chime in) you may find that with experience slipping off a button becomes uncommon with skill. You just get used to where they are. Playing anglo does involve a lot of moving your fingers around in fast music. For over a century many superb players have met both these requirements (not slipping off except when they want to) with metal-capped buttons so I'm sure it can work for you. Since you are upgrading from a Rochelle the key to progressing is to start working with a higher-level instrument, and either of these will do it for you.

 

Smile, music has made the recent months easier for many of us. I know it has for me.

 

Ken

[Acqua]

Decided to give the clover a try! Placed my order yesterday. Thank you all for the input!

[Jason]

How do you like your Clover?