Young Sailor Ready To Play

[Rod Thompson]

Thanks Tom, Paul, Steven and Jim.

 

Books like the O'Brian (James Aubry) and Forester (Hornblower) series are in the "almost fiction" category since they are based on real events. If you notice some similarities between the exploits of the two heroes, is is because they were both based on a frigate captain Captain Cochrain. There is a reference to shanty singing in one of the O'Brian books - when Aubry is dismissed from the navy and commands a privateer.

 

A lot of the references I know of that mention fiddles or violins aboard ship are likewise from the BC (Before Concertina) era. I think I remember reading that Cook hired a fiddle player to keep the crew happy and healthy. In the book "Mr Darwin's Shooter" by Roger McDonald (again "almost fiction") the main character (not Darwin) plays a mini-fiddle called Polly Pochette (spelling?). Always concerned for his crew's well being, Bligh ordered them to dance on deck while off-watch (possible to the fiddle).

 

It is obvoiusly no use looking for any references to concertinas before about 1850, but the earlier dates are most likely to be productive, since the instrument, being a novelty then, is more likely to be mentioned.

 

Jim - on the subject of concers in the outback - they seem to have been very important. Richard Evans in the Australian Computer Magazine many years ago pointed out that in every old photo that happens to show an outback music shop, the concertinas are always most prominent.

 

In collections of original bush music, the instruments featured seem to be fiddles, concers and button accordians.

 

There are some great descriptions of the bush dances. Since a concertina is fairly quiet, the player would stand in the middle of the floor to play, and if he wanted to dance himself, he would do so while playing the concer behind his partner's back! (But there are others that can tell a lot more about this than me - and they often post here).

 

I think my Palings ad is probably fairly representative, with most of the space being devoted to concertinas.

 

Anyway thanks all, and any suggestions of references will be gratefully recieved. I will certainly report back any results, but can't promise anything very soon.

[JimLucas]

In the book "Mr Darwin's Shooter" by Roger McDonald (again "almost fiction") the main character (not Darwin) plays a mini-fiddle called Polly Pochette (spelling?).

A "pocket" fiddle? I know a fellow who makes "backpack" guitars. And the instrument collection of New York's Metropolitan Museum of Art ("The Met", for short) includes several "walking stick" instruments... literally walking sticks where you could unscrew the end and extract a playable flute, fiddle, or other instrument. The fiddles, of course, were quite thin. No walking stick concertinas, though.

 

Always concerned for his crew's well being, Bligh ordered them to dance on deck while off-watch (possible to the fiddle).

It was once believed that vigorous physical exercise would prevent scurvy. The British navy is reputed to have enforced the dancing of hornpipes (said to be the most vigorous of dances, and probably not what we call hornpipes today) by their sailors in order to keep them healthy. Then it was discovered that citrus fruits (vitamin C, as we know today) really did prevent scurvy, and British Navy sailors were given a regular ration of lime juice. And that's where the term "limey" comes from.

 

Thanks for the information on Australian concertinas. Those in the shop windows, do you know whether they were mostly English made, or German? I understand there was also at least one famous local maker.

[Rod Thompson]

I play for large gatherings quite often (1,000/ 2,000 people)

Firstly a welcome to the wonderful and slightly wierd world of concertina.net to DCA.

 

Tell me more about the gatherings, amplification? type of music? type of venue? (Indoors or outdoors), type of audience?

[Rod Thompson]

No walking stick concertinas, though.

Now there is a challenge for Bob Tedrow!

 

do you know whether they were mostly English made, or German? I understand there was also at least one famous local maker.

 

From the few photos I've seen, thre seem to be some big instruments, (probably the German double-reeded ones), and a collection of smaller ones.

 

They do seem to have been of the Anglo persuasion 'tho, and nearly always 20 button.

 

There is a story of an old bushy, being shown an English concertina commenting on the handles having been put in the wrong place, and then after a few squeezes saying "no-one could play that thing even if it had two handles on each end".

[Chris Timson]

Sorry if this is off-thread Chris, perhaps I misinterpreted your first post as implying that using the concertina for shanties is in some way "cashing in" on the ignorance of the public.

 

-- snip --

 

They were not really very expensive - at least compared to the violins that were recorded as having been used.

Indeed, I wasn't trying to imply that, merely that if the audience expect to hear concertina with shanties, who are we to disappoint? Sorry if what I said sounded otherwise.

 

On the subject of the cost of fiddles, a fiddle is basically a box with a stick, 4 pegs, 4 strings and a bow. A competent woodworker could knock up something like this to a standard that, while unacceptable to the classically trained musician, would be OK for the poorer country musician or sailor. I have seen photos of just such country musicians. Such a fiddle would be much cheaper than even the cheapest German concertina, I suspect.

 

Anyway, if your researches shed some light on the area, I for one will be delighted, even if you end up contradicting my fondly-held theories.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

[JimLucas]

On the subject of the cost of fiddles, a fiddle is basically a box with a stick, 4 pegs, 4 strings and a bow. A competent woodworker could knock up something like this to a standard that, while unacceptable to the classically trained musician, would be OK for the poorer country musician or sailor.

Indeed, the "cigar box" fiddle is a well-known item in American folklore. Many a poor pioneer or mountain child is reputed to have gotten their musical start by building such an instrument, graduating to a real fiddle only after they've earned enough money to buy one.

 

One of the crew on Штандартъ (Shtandart, replica of Peter the Great's flagship) plays fiddle. Her bow is a homemade arched bow. Her fiddle is cheap, and she has improved the sound by stripping it of its original too-heavy varnish. I have difficulty imagining sailors taking similar liberties with concertinas, much less doing so successfully.

Edited August 21, 2004 by JimLucas

[Stephen Chambers]

Her fiddle is cheap, and she has improved the sound by stripping it of its original too-heavy varnish.  I have difficulty imagining sailors taking similar liberties with concertinas, much less doing so successfully.

I have long felt that there was much too strong an association, in the mind of the English-speaking public, between sailors and the concertina.

 

However, I do have one concertina (an 1850's Wheatstone "Concert Model" English) that really does appear to have belonged to a sailor, on the Royal Navy cruiser H.M.S. Isis during WWI. Unfortunately he does seem to have attempted to "improve" it for shipboard use, but rather than removing varnish he added it: To the bellows ! Unfortunately this piece of d.i.y. had a terminal effect on the flexibility of the leather, and the bellows is now badly cracked.

 

Also, I am reminded of the footnote to the definition for "concertinist" in the unabridged edition of the O.E.D., which is:

 

"Hence concertinist, a player on the concertina.

1880 Daily Tel. 7 Sept. The concertinist is ... the best masthead man of the fleet."

[JimLucas]

...I do have one concertina (an 1850's Wheatstone "Concert Model" English) that really does appear to have belonged to a sailor, on the Royal Navy cruiser H.M.S. Isis during WWI.

And then there's the one with replacement ends made of whalebone, and it's hard to imagine that being done by anyone but a sailor/whaler. Thy're too crude to have been factory original.

[malcolm clapp]

...I do have one concertina (an 1850's Wheatstone "Concert Model" English) that really does appear to have belonged to a sailor, on the Royal Navy cruiser H.M.S. Isis during WWI.

Wasn't former president of the ICA, the late Father Ken Loveless, in the Royal Navy at some point? Whether he played concertina back then or whether he only took it up after acquiring William Kimber's instrument I don't know.

Can any morris historians assist here? (I am amazed how few Google results there are for KL).

[Stephen Chambers]

And then there's the one with replacement ends made of whalebone, and it's hard to imagine that being done by anyone but a sailor/whaler.  Thy're too crude to have been factory original.

Jim,

 

Unfortunately I have not seen this instrument, do you have any pictures ? However, I would add a word of caution about any piece of "scrimshaw" that an antique dealer alleges came from a whaler, in that there is an old (and ongoing) industry manufacturing fake items of this kind for collectors. There is at least one whalebone fretless banjo in existence, which looks like it was made about 1850, but I have been told it was made by someone I know, only about 25 years ago.

 

On one occasion, when I had a stall in London's Portobello Road market, I was shown an inexpensive Lachenal concertina, with standard factory bone keys, that had been sold to a tourist as a "genuine sailor's concertina because" it was alleged "the keys are made of whalebone" !

 

Wasn't former president of the ICA, the late Father Ken Loveless, in the Royal Navy at some point? Whether he played concertina back then or whether he only took it up after acquiring William Kimber's instrument I don't know.

I am told that Ken Loveless (he wasn't ordained then) took to sea the semi-miniature (5" ends) 24-key Wheatstone anglo number 32900 (9th August 1932). It was later sold, by Harry Crabb, to Tommy McCarthy whose daughter Jacqueline plays it now.

Edited August 25, 2008 by Stephen Chambers

[JimLucas]

...ends made of whalebone...

Unfortunately I have not seen this instrument, do you have any pictures ?

There was this thread back in March.

I saw the instrument once some years ago.

I'm pretty sure it's authentic.

I've just sent Paul an email to remind him that he said he'd post pictures.

[Stephen Chambers]

There was this thread back in March.

I remember the thread . . .

 

I've just sent Paul an email to remind him that he said he'd post pictures.

. . . and also the promise to post pictures.

 

As you had evidently seen it, and not knowing that that was "in the flesh", I wondered if you had any photos you could share with us.

 

Cheers,

[JimLucas]

As you had evidently seen it, and not knowing that that was "in the flesh", I wondered if you had any photos you could share with us.

Sorry. That was quite a few (more than 20?) years ago.

I don't think I even had a camera at the time.

That's why I'm pinning my hopes on Paul.

[Stephen Chambers]

Here is a great image, a magic-lantern slide, of a sailor dancing to the music of a shipboard "orchestra", comprised of one guitar, two banjos, a concertina and a man clapping time:

[Rod Thompson]

There is also the cover of "The Foo Foo Band" CD,

 

http://world.abeillemusique.com/produit.php?cle=6407

 

As for my readings on the subject - it impressive just how little mention of sea music of any kind I've found. It would be easier to infer that no sailor ever played any instrument. (Apart from Hugil, Doerflinger, Whall etc, there is not much mention of shanties either).

 

It does seem that the "Foo Foo Band" was fairly common aboard passenger and cargo ships, and was open to sailors, officers, or even passengers. Lubbock mentions a band, and the book of the Champion of the Seas talks about a concert, but neither talk about instruments or what was played.

 

The Champion of the Seas book gives details of who sang what, but nothing about the musician(s). (It doesn't mention whether it was a "foo foo" band).

 

I think that in the period in question - 1860-19??, no-one was very interested in what the common sailors were doing to amuse themselves.

 

Interestingly, for all our theories, in Stephen's picture, that seems to be an English concer in the lantern slide. Also the Foo Foo Band picture could easily be an English concertina. (How did you come by that picture, Stephen? Any idea of its age?).

 

Anyway - little progress so far, but I'm still reading.

[JimLucas]

Interestingly, for all our theories, in Stephen's picture, that seems to be an English concer in the lantern slide.

Good eye. Yes.

 

Also the Foo Foo Band picture could easily be an English concertina.

That looks right, too.

 

How did you come by that picture, Stephen? Any idea of its age?

The caption says "War Vessels. Sailors Dancing."

Anybody recognize the uniform?

I would guess the sailors as being East European.

Looks like an iron ship with a wooden deck.

The number "8154" suggests a large collection. I wonder what other "War Vessels" pictures it contained.

 

Anybody able to look up "T.H. McAllister, Manufacturing Optician" at that address in old directories? The address doesn't give a ZIP code or even a postal "zone". The former came into use in 1963, the latter in 1943. So prior to 1943 seems likely.

[Chris Timson]

There is also the cover of "The Foo Foo Band" CD,

 

http://world.abeillemusique.com/produit.php?cle=6407

Yes indeed, and the chap on the left seems to be playing air concertina!

 

Chris

[JimLucas]

...the chap on the left seems to be playing air concertina!

Viewer's left? Nope, he's playing bones.