Shakespeare 38 Key Bb/F on eBay!

[Ptarmigan]

I have always thought that Bb is the perfect key for an anglo as it is not as high pitched and tinny sounding as a C/G but not as baritone sounding and slow as many G/D's.

 

Shakespeare 38 Key Anglo Concertina in Bb/F

 

So how many lovely Bb/Fs have been spared from the dreaded C/G Tummy Tuck?

 

Would most serious players of Irish Music have one tucked away at home, or are they as scarce as Hen's Teeth?

 

I must say I've never seen one at a session, although I have seen a photo of a small band of enthusiasts playing them at Eigse Mrs Crotty.

 

Cheers

Dick

 

P.S. Back in 2004 Shay Fogarty wrote this:

 

After that bit of research it was time to give the Bb/F tinas an airing. Mark Davies, Tom Driscoll and myself sojourned to Buggles and had a quiet hour or so playing in this lovely pitch. The three concertinas going together was like a church organ at full steam. It is a real pity that it is rarely possible to play in sessions in Bflat. Sometimes a piper will have a C chanter, but not often, so it is hardly worth carrying the Bb/F tina around. The demand for Jeffries and Wheatstones and indeed Lachenals is so great that the flat pitch boxes tend to be tuned up which is a great pity as the tone is so beautiful.

 

Eigse Mrs Crotty, Kilrush 2004

 

So have things improved since then, or .......

Edited January 29, 2011 by Ptarmigan

[Theo]

 

So have things improved since then, or .......

 

I was asked to restore a lovely Bb/F Jeffries last year for someone who had inherited it but wanted to sell. I advised against changing the pitch, and eventually restored it and sold it for a good price, only a little less than I would expect for a C/G. I think there is a responsibility on repairers to be conservative in dealing with scarce old instruments, there are plenty of C/Gs out there for the majority who want them, but their is a demand for other pitches, especially from those accompanying singers. Diversity is good.

[doodle]

Well said, Theo. I find as time goes on, my voice appreciates Bb (no puns intended!) in songs I used to sing in C. Perhaps there will be growing market for Bb/F's as we all mature? (ps I'm also picking up my Bb/Eb melodeon more often, too)

[Ptarmigan]

I was asked to restore a lovely Bb/F Jeffries last year for someone who had inherited it but wanted to sell.

 

Yes, I well remember lusting after that Bb/F alright, Theo.

 

"I think there is a responsibility on repairers to be conservative in dealing with scarce old instruments, there are plenty of C/Gs"

 

Indeed.

The way I see it, with so many makers out there now, who are well able to supply excellent quality Concertinas in C/G, I think & hope the day has surely gone now, when fine quality vintage instruments need to be seriously tampered with.

 

I know I certainly won't be altering my old pitch A/E Jeffries.

 

As Shay says, Bb/F is such a lovely Pitch to play in, it's a real shame more musicians don't play down there.

The music of course sounds very different, to my ears at least, so rich & mellow.

A Session in C is a glorious experience, especially if there are flat Pipes in the mix.

 

I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds many C/G boxes just far too shrill on ye olde ears?

 

.... or maybe that's just cause I'm getting older too, doodle!

 

Cheers

Dick

[michael sam wild]

I love Bb and borrowed a Bb/F one from a fellow c.netter last year, in fact it was a bit off Bb so an older tuning. It was a great instrument to sing to and it had some lovely growling bass buttons.. I agree with Theo but once someone has bought it it is their's to do with what they want ( and this seller has concertinas altered regularly) but I think a good market price would keep them in circulation , plus a bit of exposure from a popular player always helps!

[Stephen Chambers]

I was asked to restore a lovely Bb/F Jeffries last year for someone who had inherited it but wanted to sell. I advised against changing the pitch, and eventually restored it and sold it for a good price, only a little less than I would expect for a C/G. I think there is a responsibility on repairers to be conservative in dealing with scarce old instruments, there are plenty of C/Gs out there for the majority who want them, but their is a demand for other pitches, especially from those accompanying singers.

 

You remind me of a wonderful high-pitch Jeffries Bb/F, in original tuning, that Roger Digby has now. I got it from a Sotheby's auction for Paul Davies (who hadn't seen it) and he'd asked me to retune it to C/G in time for his next visit - but it was much too good, when I got it, to commit such a terrible sin. Once he played it, he was utterly delighted with it and it became his "street box" for busking, and (with its fantastic combination of power and sweetness) it earned him his house...

 

Diversity is good.

 

It is, though it can be a big problem if you've only got one box, not forgetting hard to sell.

 

Indeed I was recently horrified to discover that a large-model, raised-ended Wheatstone C/G (#28080) I was working on had been made in (low) Eb/Bb - a tuning that I've never encountered before, or that a Lachenal C/G from South Africa, that I'm fixing, had originally been an Ab/Eb...

[michael sam wild]

Bb/Eb was quite common on Hohner Erika and ClubModell melodeons , I love 'em

[Ptarmigan]

.. I think a good market price would keep them in circulation.

 

Well Michael, with so many Bb/Fs having been tweaked up to C/G over the years, surely this makes the good old originals even rarer, so as they become more scarce, with any luck their value rises.

 

Hopefully, we soon reach the stage where Bb/Fs are worth just as much as C/Gs on the open market. Then perhaps people will leave more of them as they are.

 

Cheers

Dick

[Lawrence Reeves]

I would be curious if it is a standard Jeffries note layout. My Shakespeare 38 button C / G had an unusual layout for C#. I changed the reed positions, and shimmed them where needed. The push C# was on the extra button of the C row as a push, originally. I always wondered about other 38 key Shakespeares.

[Roger Digby]

Paul Davies' 'street box' is still exactly as he left it! High pitch, uneven - if slightly tweaked - and sounding magnificent. It leads a quiet life and doesn't go out much because of the high pitch, but only yesterday I was trying it out for a dance workshop that Liz Giddings is leading in a couple of weeks and where I'll be the only musician. At present I'm leaning towards using Paul's other high pitch, uneven instrument in G/D, which I've no doubt, Steve, you also remember and which, like the 'street box' will never be retuned while I own it.