Jeffries vs. Wheatstone /Lachenal layout for Irish music

[semaj1950]

Hi gang,

 

I'm on the verge or ordering a mid-price range Anglo concertina, primarily for playing session type Irish tunes. I've been playing a Rochelle, and before that, a Bastari--both of which use the Wheatstone/Lachenal layout. Before ordering one, however, I was wondering what the pros and cons of the Jeffries layout are versus the Wheatstone.

 

I would appreciate any input on this from experienced Irish session players. If someone can direct me to an earlier discussion in these forums, that would be great.

 

While you're at it, are there any advantages to a G/D as opposed to a C/G for that type of music? I'll be playing at sessions with too many fiddlers, but they all play in the standard keys.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Jim

[angloplayer]

I would appreciate any input on this from experienced Irish session players.

 

Hi Jim,

I'm not an experienced Irish session player but I know that having a C# on the push and the pull is very convenient for playing ITM. Your choice should be C/G. For me there are still some tunes for which I prefer the G/D (like Drowsy Maggie and other E Dorian E minor stuff), but in general (80%) I prefer the C?G over the G/D.

 

enjoy your new concertina!!

 

Edited January 31, 2010 by angloplayer

[michael sam wild]

I think 30 button C/G is the best instrument for melodic Irish style playing. Rather than think about names of layouts, which are all basically the same take good advice on the notes on push or pull of some of the buttons outside the original 20 button baiscs on which they were all built. I'd make a diagram of the desired notes on the reloevant buttons.

 

There have been a lot of discussions recently on this topic eg c#/c# on the RHS accidental . Pull A on the lowest pull on the G row etv etc I wish I'd done all that research but i just got stuck in to what i had and eventually had to change concertinas , once at a loss.

 

 

By the way, noone will agree because they get used to things their way.

 

I have found Mick Bramich's book and John Williams' DVD the most helpful as well as Frank Edgeleys book and CD and DVD

[David Levine]

I've been playing C/G Anglo concertina for years. I prefer the Jeffries system. I don't see any advantage to having the Wheatstone system for ITM. That said, when I do play a Wheatstone system concertina I am able to adapt to it within a few minutes.

So my advice would be to go for the Jeffries system, with the two C#/D# D#/C# buttons on the top row right hand. But if you can't get this, don't worry too much about it. You'll be able to play ITM in either case.

[Michael Eskin]

I agree, my preference is for the Jeffries system, or if you can arrange it, having the option of having both a C#/D# and D#/C# is quite nice as well. On my Carroll, I have C#/C# and C#/D#, so there is a C# in both the standard position for a Jeffries or Wheatstone player.

[Ken_Coles]

This is a perennial topic.

 

About 11 years ago I came to several conclusions:

 

== folks use both systems for Irish music. If one were clearly superior my guess is that after a hundred years it would have edged out the other by now

== it appeared to me to be mostly a matter of how you play the D (and I suppose A) major scale and relative minors. That appeared to commonly be dictated by where your C# note(s) was/were. Satisfactory solutions appear to exist for both systems.

== people continue to experiment (see uncounted former threads on this); e.g. what I call the third or irish layout with as many as 3 C sharps on the right side in the same octave. If I could play like lightning maybe this would matter to me, but I can't so it doesn't.

 

In the years since I have not learned anything that alters these impressions. Like another poster, I have used both systems and can reset my brain after a pause (mostly!)

 

Pick one, play, have fun.

Ken

[Fergus_fiddler]

Same to me.

 

I began to play with a Stagi with Wheatstone layout & then bought a Morse with the Jeffries one. I think having the two C# is a lot better for alternative phrasing.

 

Cheers,

 

FEr

Edited February 1, 2010 by Fergus_fiddler