Sing & Play

[Kelteglow]

Hi All For those of you who accompay youself singing are you conscious of A.Playing along to your singing or B. Singing along to your playing ?I think I play to my singing .I rcentley heard someone playing a church organ and he was definitaly following the solo singer .I suppose its possible to do either way .Any thoughts ? Bob

[gavdav]

Hi All For those of you who accompay youself singing are you conscious of A.Playing along to your singing or B. Singing along to your playing ?I think I play to my singing .I rcentley heard someone playing a church organ and he was definitaly following the solo singer .I suppose its possible to do either way .Any thoughts ? Bob

 

I started singing to the tune, then found that the more I did it the freer I became, in the end I have arrived somewhere in the middle by happy accident.

[Marien]

When trying a new song with the concertina - in the beginning - I focus on how to sing it. Another time I focus on how it should be played on the concertina. Both parts may have different emphasis moments. Both parts seem to be stored in different parts of my head. When the song goes okay - somehow - it feels like two of my split personalities are becoming alive. One is singing and the other one is playing the concertina. Now a third personality wakes up and tells me that it is time to get something to drink.

[bellowbelle]

I've decided I like a 'one voice' feeling, where the singing and playing don't compete but support each other with intermingling lines or whatever. So, I try for that, which means my answer to your question would be 'neither,' or 'both.'

 

However...

 

Lately, I'd say my playing follows my singing, because it's the easy way to log stuff into memory.

[frogspawn]

I've only just started to sing and play with any success and only in private. I'm very consciouis indeed that my singing tends to accompany my playing rather than vice versa. One side effect of this is to forget to breathe properly. I need to reverse this and to make the whole process smoother. I will just keep at it, day after day, until the playing comes automatically and I can concentrate on the song. That's the plan, anyway.

 

Richard

[Kurt Braun]

For longer than I care to reveal, I've played (and sung) mostly to myself and very occasionally to family and close friends. Several months ago I began attending a weekly open mic and bi-weekly jam sessions. I've learned a lot from this. To share:

 

1. Guitars are wonderful instruments to accompany singing. Concertinas must be reigned in a bit for singing.

 

2. No one(except me) plays the melody or even a counter melody and I'm questioning the utility of this.

 

3. Instrumental breaks are extremely rare. And a few of the really fun and musical performers really don't play that well at all.

 

4. The most interesting and fun to listen to people know lots and lots of songs. And they know them well.

 

5. It is the song that matters. Do it well, and what you do on the accompaniment goes mostly unnoticed.

 

6. Microphones, amplifiers and the rest, also matter. (I'm awaiting my PA system as I write this so I can practice with the stuff that complicates the open mic session.) If you don't get the balance and all correct, everything else can quickly fall apart.

 

7. Most of the fun of all of this is the people you meet, not the instrument.

 

8. Now that I'm into it, I see that my problem with jam sessions was trying too hard and trying to do too much. Just a few keys, a few chords, and a few rhythmic patterns go a long way. Listening to others is very helpful. People like it if you take your turn, so you need to know some songs.

 

9. You have to know how to sing with just chords.

 

10. Working out on a treadmill is a good time to memorize lyrics, and you need to.

 

11. Music stands are useless. You need to know stuff pat so you can interact with the audience with your eyes. This is a particularly difficult thing for me.

 

12. Voice teachers are helpful people.

 

Kurt

[michael sam wild]

To begin with I played melody with a few chords ( I starte with melodeon) . Now I am getting the tune fixed and then pulling back from the tune and using chords, some only on 1 and 5th notes and also bass runes and countermelody and octaves. I'm trying to think that the concertina (Anglo in various keys) is like singing with another voice. I sing a lot at our local carols here in South Yorkshire and really like the harmonies and 'fugues' we do. The sort of band material Dan Worrall has posted also gives inspiration for harmony.

 

 

As I have always been an unaccompanied singer i don't want too much concertina as I like a free style and rhythm so sutain and drawing out notes and chords is important. I don't find many guitarists i meet understand that so I listen to Nic Jones, Tony Rose, Martin Simpson, Chris Wood et al, again just examples

 

 

I am learning a lot by listening to various free reed accompaniments, not only concertinas, , Peter Bellamy, John Kirkpatrick, Brian Peters, Steve Turner, Tony Hall, Tony Rose, Iris Bishop, Chris Parkinson, Jody Kruskal, ralph Jordan, Dick Miles. In no special order

 

I'd welcome other suggestions

[Kautilya]

Unless you have stitched up some practice with your accompanist before you hit the false notes, any tips for making sure you start a song at a session in a key which suits you AND enough instruments so they can play along with you? One can sing without backing of course, and the problem does not arise. But as Michael Sam Wild says, it is great when voice and instruments come together and other voices join in too for a nice sinalong.

 

Here's a classic cockup for a toon (or, ref earlier discussion a 'sune') which should be in G but that is too high for the caterwauler.

 

It starts in B !! But that meant most of the instruments had trouble coming in. Quick discussion and then down to summat like a C (or was that a D the base guitarist shouted?!

 

One of the probs (you can hear it!)is that sometimes an instrument seems to get ahead and can shake the singing off course ... in this case a very supportive nearby melodeon (an Erika C/F).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03QKWNQWVU8

Edited July 5, 2011 by Kautilya

[Jody Kruskal]

For longer than I care to reveal, I've played (and sung) mostly to myself and very occasionally to family and close friends. Several months ago I began attending a weekly open mic and bi-weekly jam sessions. I've learned a lot from this. To share:

 

1. Guitars are wonderful instruments to accompany singing. Concertinas must be reigned in a bit for singing.

 

2. No one(except me) plays the melody or even a counter melody and I'm questioning the utility of this.

 

3. Instrumental breaks are extremely rare. And a few of the really fun and musical performers really don't play that well at all.

 

4. The most interesting and fun to listen to people know lots and lots of songs. And they know them well.

 

5. It is the song that matters. Do it well, and what you do on the accompaniment goes mostly unnoticed.

 

6. Microphones, amplifiers and the rest, also matter. (I'm awaiting my PA system as I write this so I can practice with the stuff that complicates the open mic session.) If you don't get the balance and all correct, everything else can quickly fall apart.

 

7. Most of the fun of all of this is the people you meet, not the instrument.

 

8. Now that I'm into it, I see that my problem with jam sessions was trying too hard and trying to do too much. Just a few keys, a few chords, and a few rhythmic patterns go a long way. Listening to others is very helpful. People like it if you take your turn, so you need to know some songs.

 

9. You have to know how to sing with just chords.

 

10. Working out on a treadmill is a good time to memorize lyrics, and you need to.

 

11. Music stands are useless. You need to know stuff pat so you can interact with the audience with your eyes. This is a particularly difficult thing for me.

 

12. Voice teachers are helpful people.

 

Kurt

 

Hi Kurt,

 

What a wonderful list you have made. I laughed out loud several times reading it and really think you are on to something here. Yes, it's true... less is more (most of the time) until it's time to trot out a bit of the more, just for show. The eyes are very important, we want to see yours when you play. Yes, it's the song we want to hear, not you doing interesting things on your instrument.

 

I really love your list because it's the very same stuff I'm dealing with as I try to record and perform better. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this fascinating topic.

[Anglo-Irishman]

Hi All For those of you who accompay youself singing are you conscious of A.Playing along to your singing or B. Singing along to your playing ?I think I play to my singing .I rcentley heard someone playing a church organ and he was definitaly following the solo singer .I suppose its possible to do either way .Any thoughts ? Bob

 

Sometimes an accompanist will follow a singer, sometimes a singer will follow an accompanist. Usually depends on who is the more competent or confident. If both are equally competent, the accompanist should ideally follow the singer, but the singer should be fair, and not try to shake off the accompanist by speeding up and slowing down erratically.

 

Self-accompaniment is a completely different matter. You are in charge of both the voice and the instrument, so when you decide to get faster or slower, or louder or softer, it automatically happens on both channels at once. Nobody is following anybody - unless you're a split personality!

 

Speaking for myself - and I'm probably not unique in this - I play my instruments much better when I'm not singing, and I sing just a shade better when I'm not playing an instrument. So why bother with self-accompaniment, if the quality of both voice and instrument is impaired?

The reason is that the rapport, or synchronisation, of voice and instrument is perfect, and this makes up for a lot in the way of expressiveness and "togetherness". To get the same rapport between a separate singer and accompanist, you need either a very talented accompanist and a very predictable singer, or hours of practice.

 

Cheers,

John

[Jody Kruskal]

Hi All For those of you who accompay youself singing are you conscious of A.Playing along to your singing or B. Singing along to your playing ?I think I play to my singing .I rcentley heard someone playing a church organ and he was definitaly following the solo singer .I suppose its possible to do either way .Any thoughts ? Bob

I really like this question and I find myself pondering the further questions it brings up for me. Just a few quick thoughts.

 

When I perform I'm really thinking about my audience and connecting to them. That is foremost in my mind. All the other stuff is on auto pilot, at least on a good day. I'm not thinking about either A.Playing along to my singing or B. Singing along to my playing. However, when I practice... that's another matter. I try thinking about all kinds of stuff and holding that one thought in my mind while I let the rest go on muddling about as best it can. Sometimes I will be placing my attention on technical stuff like fingerings, often I'm thinking about getting the rhythm right or the volume and button duration or the density of accompaniment just right. Sometimes though, I place the needs of the song foremost in my mind and work on pitch, emotion, delivery and all. Sometimes I work on keeping the concertina going without interfering with the song. That usually means playing as little as possible to let the song come forward. This is the short list.

[Jubilee]

Have just discovered this really interesting discussion.

I have been singing unaccompanied for years and recently I have been fumbling around with concertina to accompany some of my songs and I feel like I'm trying to rub my stomach and pat my head at the same time. This may be because I purchased my first concertina 20 years ago for this very reason, but then discovered 'tunes' and went off at a tangent joining in sessions and having a great time and keeping my singing unaccompanied. As I feel the song is the important part and the accompaniment secondary I try to keep the accompaniment very sparse and to a minimum. I do find listening to others who sing and play at the same time is beneficial and do listen to all the players listed previous. I feel, as ever it comes down to practice practice and repetition. Having just retired I'm going to have more time to spend on this as well. And looking forward to it.

[Kautilya]

Have just discovered this really interesting discussion.

I have been singing unaccompanied for years and recently I have been fumbling around with concertina to accompany some of my songs and I feel like I'm trying to rub my stomach and pat my head at the same time. This may be because I purchased my first concertina 20 years ago for this very reason, but then discovered 'tunes' and went off at a tangent joining in sessions and having a great time and keeping my singing unaccompanied. As I feel the song is the important part and the accompaniment secondary I try to keep the accompaniment very sparse and to a minimum. I do find listening to others who sing and play at the same time is beneficial and do listen to all the players listed previous. I feel, as ever it comes down to practice practice and repetition. Having just retired I'm going to have more time to spend on this as well. And looking forward to it.

V interesting.

Some useful tips and even more discussion over the other side

http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,6404.0.html

[Anglo-Irishman]

Some useful tips and even more discussion over the other side

http://forum.melodeo...pic,6404.0.html

 

Yes, including the tip about choosing the key to suit the voice - and if neither of your keys fits, getting a second box. Fortunately, we concertinists can deal with this situation by havng just one duet.

 

However, I find the Anglo better for self-accompaniment, because the harmonisation in the home keys is so simple, and takes up so little of your concentration. I'm lucky, because I can sing most folk-type songs in C, and most of the rest in G, so a standard C/G Anglo is fine for me as a singer.

 

As several have said, the voice is the important part of song performance, and the accompaniment should support it. And this means playing in a key that puts the tune in the middle of your voice range.

 

Cheers,

John

[Chris Timson]

Lots of good stuff here. The only thing I'll add is that I feel with any song I sing, whether accompanied or no, the words are key. Hence when I come up with an accompaniment I practice and practice it until I can play it virtually on automatic. At that point I can then concentrate on putting the words across. The accompaniment can then follow my voice, which is the right way round in my book. Guitarists in particular are prone to coming up with a rhythmic accompaniment and then forcing the song to follow it, concertina players need not be so restricted.

 

Chris