Morris Music On A C/g Anglo

[JimLucas]

For a couple of dances, ... we just use a recorder with Anglo playing chords.

Chords? We don't need no steenking chords!

 

Ah, for the days when it was thought that more than one musician at a time (for Cotswold Morris) would distract from the dance and even hinder the musician's ability to tailor the music to the dancers' needs.

 

When you have a band, the dancers dance to the music. When you have a soloist, the musician plays for the dancers. One viewpont, anyway.

(Of course, a single musician could be either chordless or eclectic... fiddle, flute, concertina, melodeon, pipe-and-tabor, saxophone, electric guitar, etc.)

[Peter Brook]

Well Jim that is another "can of worms".

 

Purists in this country maintain that only one musician should play to cotswold morris dancers so that the music can be tailored to fit what the dancers are doing.

 

However in practice and partly due to North West Morris traditions of having a brass band to accompany, most sides typically have upwards of three musicians.

 

On May day we had five musicians, and as more and more alcohol was consumed the less we played together, which resulted in several "crashes" where we all had to stop because no one was sure where they were in the tune. It doesn't seem to be so much of a problem when playing inside.

 

Of course if it were down to me only concertinas would be allowed!

[premo]

A few English morris dance musician traditions I've noticed over the years:

 

Piano accordion players - play too fast.

Melodeon players - start of at right speed, then get faster.

Fiddle players - spend ten minutes tuning up before each dance.

More than one musician - more than one version of the same tune at the same time.

Alcohol - makes all of the above worse, but the dancers are past caring.

[JimLucas]

Of course if it were down to me only concertinas would be allowed!

Even to a concertina fanatic like me, that sounds rather boring.

... I like my music to be about music, not about dominance.

[JimLucas]

A few English morris dance musician traditions I've noticed over the years:

 

Piano accordion players - play too fast.

Melodeon players - start of at right speed, then get faster.

Fiddle players - spend ten minutes tuning up before each dance.

More than one musician - more than one version of the same tune at the same time.

Alcohol - makes all of the above worse, but the dancers are past caring.

But you didn't tell us which village each of these traditions comes from.

[JimLucas]

We have a set of musicians with no two instruments alike, G/D melodian, B/C melodian, extended treble English, G/D, Bb/F or C/G Anglo (Me), fiddle, drum, Tuba and Bass Trombone.

I hope the tuba and bass trombone get to take the melody line from time to time.

[premo]

Silly me! They are (in order)

 

Much Bassnotes

Lesser Bassnotes

Outoftuning

Much Outoftuning

Much Drinking in the Pub

[Peter Brook]

Of course if it were down to me only concertinas would be allowed!

Even to a concertina fanatic like me, that sounds rather boring.

... I like my music to be about music, not about dominance.

Well I agree with you actually. In this country though there are so many melodeons and violins that they get very annoying - especially when the two violinists in my side are having a race with each other and the melodeon player is deaf!

 

I don't want to blast anyone away. In fact I would rather we played slower, quieter and all together, to produce something musicaly appealing and supports the main event - ie the dancing.

[JimLucas]

They are (in order)

 

Much Bassnotes

Lesser Bassnotes

Outoftuning

Much Outoftuning

Much Drinking in the Pub

Haven't you missed out Passed Out Under Which Tap?

... (I had some other ideas for village/tradition names, but this is a family forum. )

[Stephen Chambers]

... speaking for myself, personally, in my own opinion, I think the G/D is rather nice, actually.

I couldn't agree with you more on that Chris, in fact the only anglo that I was ever "deeply in lust" over was Paul Davies' 38-key, mean-tone tuned, Praed Street, C. Jeffries G/D. I seem to recall that it was Fred Kilroy's "Best", and it is absolutely gorgeous !

 

However the D/G can never have the "ring", the "bite" and the "lift" of the C/G, for dance playing (especially outdoors), and does not have such a long tradition of use in that context. I would also much prefer the low G row of the G/C melodeon, to the (often unpleasant) high one of the D/G. G was always the lowest key that melodeons and harmonicas were built in, and F was the highest, not without reason.

[wes williams]

Mention of Ken Loveless and Morris music reminds me to tell you about a cassette still available:

MR-1 Fr.Kenneth Loveless

See http://www.argonet.co.uk/homepages/johnmaher/Ring/Shop.htm

 

I prefer the old pitch Bb/F played in Bb - when you start playing for a dance, no one else ever seems to try to join in and distract you (I wonder why?) and you can concentrate on the dancers.

[Stephen Chambers]

I prefer the old pitch Bb/F played in Bb ...

Now that is absolutely the best pitch for an anglo ! It still has a good "ring", but also a lovely richness.

 

You remind me of Paul Davies' other truly wonderful C. Jeffries, also a 38-key, mean-tone, Praed Street one. He left me the money to buy it "blind" for him, as he was going off on a trip, and he asked me to repitch it to C/G, ready for when he got back. However, it was so good that I didn't want to change it, and when he returned and played it, he was very pleased that I had not gone ahead with the retuning, it was absolutely perfect just the way it was.

 

He called it his "street box", and he bought his house in Worthing busking with that concertina !

 

- when you start playing for a dance, no one else ever seems to try to join in and distract you (I wonder why?)  and you can concentrate on the dancers.

Just you wait, one of these days somebody is going to sneak up on you with an old, high-pitch, cornet !

[JimLucas]

- when you start playing for a dance, no one else ever seems to try to join in and distract you (I wonder why?)  and you can concentrate on the dancers.

Just you wait, one of these days somebody is going to sneak up on you with an old, high-pitch, cornet !

I would love to do that!

(I wouldn't even have to learn to "transpose", since my trumpet is in C. )

 

Stephen, do you know where I could get one?

[Paul Groff]

Stephen,

 

As you probably know, another occasional contributor to this forum now owns at least one of the Jeffries concertinas you mentioned and I have heard a tape of him playing it. It really is a beautiful sounding instrument, although it may have been retuned since you heard it.

 

I also have a special appreciation for high-pitch Bb/F anglos. It is really a shame that so few are left in their original keys and pitch. If I am not mistaken, the Free Reed recording of John Kelly, sr. features him playing one in this key, possibly loaned to him for the recording.

 

In telephone conversation with me, the late Paul Davies also described his most original Jeffries anglos as being tuned "in mean-tone." As has been discussed in this Forum, it is pretty well-known that the early english concertinas were tuned in meantone. Of course, the term "mean-tone" really refers to a whole family of temperaments (e.g., 1/4 comma, 1/6 comma, "irregular meantone temperaments," etc. -- see "Tuning" by Jorgenson, among many excellent references). However, (as I think you and I discussed on the phone a few years back) I have seen quite a bit of evidence that at least some Jeffries anglos (as well as original anglos by Jones, John Crabb, etc.) were tuned to a much more unique system than any mean-tone tuning that I have seen documented for keyboard instruments, one that uniquely fits with the note layout of the anglo and its options for harmony, and that implies a playing style a little different from that usually used today. I am trying to finish a short, preliminary paper on my observations of the 19th century anglos I have been able to study that retain mostly original reedwork. I welcome any relevant information from you or other concertina tuners and historians. I don't want to re-invent the wheel if others have done this work (of documenting the ingenuity of the 19th century anglo tuners in London), and of course I will acknowledge all the help I receive.

 

Paul

[Stephen Chambers]

Paul,

 

Stephen,

 

As you probably know, another occasional contributor to this forum now owns at least one of the Jeffries concertinas you mentioned and I have heard a tape of him playing it.  It really is a beautiful sounding instrument ...

Actually, I got an email from him this morning, and it seems he owns the pair of them now - the lucky b***! (He deserves them !)

 

I also have a special appreciation for high-pitch Bb/F anglos.  It is really a shame that so few are left in their original keys and pitch.

Then again, there wouldn't be so many C/G's around today if they hadn't been converted, and its nothing new, Jeffries themselves were doing it 100 years ago too ! As for pitch, there is a wonderful "ring" off the old high pitch ("Old Philharmonic"), that A=440 Hz doesn't have, but in Jeffries' time there were four different pitch standards in England alone, never mind anywhere else, we really did need to establish an international "concert pitch" (recommended only as late as 1939, though talked about for many years previously).

 

If I am not mistaken, the Free Reed recording of John Kelly, sr. features him playing one in this key, possibly loaned to him for the recording.

In later years, I sold a Bb/F Jeffries to John Kelly (not the one on the record), and always thought the rich sound of it suited the way he played much better than his aluminium-ended Crabb did. Of course John came from a generation of Irish concertina players who had originally played German concertinas (which I know you also like), and I loved his old style on one of those !

 

... (as I think you and I discussed on the phone a few years back) I have seen quite a bit of evidence that at least some Jeffries anglos (as well as original anglos by Jones, John Crabb, etc.) were tuned to a much more unique system than any mean-tone tuning that I have seen documented for keyboard instruments, ... I welcome any relevant information from you or other concertina tuners and historians.

I think that I should still have charts of the tuning of at least one of Paul's high-pitch boxes, speak to me after I have moved, I'm right in the middle of it at the moment. I don't know if Jorgenson has a name for it, though his book is certainly the "bible" of the subject (and about as weighty as many a Family Bible), but there were lots of different "systems" of temperament, maybe he will have to start listing "Jeffries tuning" ?

[Paul Groff]

Stephen,

 

Many thanks, that chart would be extremely helpful to me. Other contributors to this Forum have also helped, and offered to help. No project of this type can be untaken single-handedly, and I hope if I can come up with a discussion worth publishing it will in turn be helpful to others with an interest in the anglo. It sometimes seems as though I am in a race with those hurrying to repitch old instruments though I agree with you that it is easy to see why the owners of these want this done. I did most of my learning on repitched instruments, including one Bb/F Jeffries that had been pitched up to C/G the week before I bought it. This type of restoration (once more common than now, I think) does produce an instrument more easily playable with others, but often at a sacrifice to its own quality and originality.

 

In a way, I am a *little* less worried about this loss of historical information, now that I am gaining confidence that I am learning the exact temperaments intended by the original tuners of the old anglos, and the "performance rationale" for each deviation from what our ears (educated in the 20th century and later) hear as "properly tuned." At this point, I could tune a brand-new concertina to any of the original temperaments I have inferred from study of original anglos by Jones, Jeffries, and John Crabb, and -- more important -- weigh the pros and cons of each for different styles of playing (especially harmonization). Of course, given the changes over time in even the most original reeds, my inferences are subject to error so increasing the sample size is very important.

 

I do think the tunings and temperaments developed by the London anglo makers are unusual and will be found very interesting by students of temperament like Mr. Jorgenson. While they are optimized for the anglo-chromatic concertina, as played in certain styles, they should be included in the record of historical temperaments and might have some application for other instruments.

Unfortunately, concertinas (in general) are somewhat marginalized in most discussions of musical instrument history (organology). But in the history of temperament, Mr. Jones, Mr. Crabb,. et al. might deserve a much more prominent place, since the evolution of the anglo allowed a redefinition of some ancient problems that constrained the quality of harmony in keyboard instruments such as organ and piano.

 

Paul

Edited May 8, 2004 by Paul Groff

[Stephen Chambers]

Shock... Horror ... I have heard a vicious, but unfounded rumour that they are even making new-fangled melodions with ACCIDENTALS of all things!!. Whatever next?

 

Maybe not so new-fangled after all Geoff, in that (if I'm understanding the description of them correctly now) those first Hagstrom D/G boxes, made for the EFDS, appear to have been Club Models - so they'd have had a partial third row of semitones...