Rod Thompson

In the picture I have, the instrument is definitely 12 sided - I am including a crop of it, I hope this doesn't violate copyright.

I have a "Chinese lantern" concertina ("Milan" brand - made in China) with two wooden rings in the bellows. If I use any quick bellows reversals, it sets up a sort of syncopated percussion, from the bellows rings clacking together.

Thanks all - this is very useful, I will have a go at collating all of this info soon. All info is of value, but it is more valuable if the source is known (e.g. book/photo etc) - this can help prevent double counting as well. Edited to say - I am looking for examples of any kind of instrument being played aboard ship by the sailors, not just concertinas, so that we can get some idea of the relative frequency of uses.

More than willing - I would be glad of the extra potential input. Thanks.

Hey - I'm now an "Advanced Member" - does that mean I can play better now?

Some time ago, on another topic I said I would start some research onto the use or otherwise of concertinas by sailors. There is some controversy as to whether concertinas were used much if at all, despite the public impression of the concertina as a "sailors instrument". Certainly they were not used to accompany sea shantys, but no instrument ever was. It is difficult to find much at all to answer the question one way or the other, since there is very little written about the use of any instruments aboard ship, and indeed, very little is written about the lifestyle of the common sailors at all. In actual photos, I have counted: 3 concertinas, 2 banjos, 1 button accordian, guitar, mouth organ and bones. (I have seen another button accordian, but can't track it down again). In eye-witness accounts: 1 or more mouth organs, 2 or more concertinas, an accordian, and a violin. 1 Paddle organ – I’m not sure what this is – combination musical instrument and life-preserver? 1 Piano (in the trainees’ accommodation aboard the Richelieu) 1 Harmonium (temporarily hoisted aboard the Cutty Sark in Shanghai for the moral improvement of the apprentices). I haven't included pianos etc in the passenger's areas, or "military" type instruments - bugles, drums etc. I also haven't included anything from before about 1860, since the concertina wasn't available before then. Sources: “Windjammers The final Story” by Robert Carter (an excellent book of eyewitness stories, accompanied by reproductions of the author’s paintings of the big ships and barques of the later years of sail). This book has the quote “On fine nights the watch used to gather on the main hatch and spin yarns or sing songs. There was always someone with a mouth organ or concertina. . . .” Dudley Turner in the Monkbarns (British) 1925. “Shackleton and the Antarctic Explorers” by Gavin Mortimer. (which has a photo of Shackleton on the deck of the Endurance, with 4 sailors, one of whom is holding a 12 sided english concer - presumably it didn't make it home even though the crew did). The books by Basil Lubbock, while very good for descriptions of the ships, say very little about the sailors. So - has anyone else got any photos or eye witness accounts that would help with this?

"Doctor - I keep hearing music whenever I go outdoors" "I can fix that" - - - "Wonderful Doctor - what did you do?" "I took the band out of your hat" (boom boom) (Challenge - any older jokes than that one?)

Yes - I have to admit it. In fact, I am fighting against the dreaded "should I try a Hayden?" phase. Most of my instruments were obtained under the "It has to be saved from not being played" rationalization. I recognise this as lacking in credibility, particularly in the case of the poor knocked-about mandonlin I saved from a second hand junk shop, and can't play. But at least I keep it in tune.

Great cartoons - show us more please! "Carol A. Capella" - good stage name for a female singer?? Any other stage names come to mind??

Guilty secrets time: I belong to an amateur theatre [guilty secret one], and last year we scheduled "'Allo 'Allo". The director wanted a strolling musician, but not the concertina - he wanted a "real accordian". After exhausting all other possibilities, I dusted out my old Hohner Erica G/D [g.s. 2], and worked out a few pieces. What really helped me was finding this website http://diato.org/tablat.htm with a load of good, but fairly easy button accordian arrangements. I found I really enjoyed playing Erica again [g.s. 3], but since then she has been abandoned again for my concer(s). [g.s. 4] http://www.villanovaplayers.com/allo/rod.html#quote (remember this is a publicity shot)

I really meant our instrument's period - I also am not quite that old Also, I edited the previous post to add the (sic) after "base" - even though I don't know what "(sic)" means - "See if I Care" "See I'm Clever" ? (the Maritime Museum says it's a base drum - who am I to argue?)

Well - the only songs I know that are suitable for singing to bugle music are: "Come to the cookhouse door boys . . . etc". and "I bought a horse, I bought a cow, I bought a donkey I sold the horse, I killed the cow, I kept the donkey and the silly old ... he died" (from my youth, as bugler in the school cadets). . . . and did you notice, the only drum from our period from a ship was the base (sic) drum?

Yes - but omitting all the instruments from prior to 1860, - the barrel organ, Ship's piano by Raymond, the Violin, the two flutes and two drums; The ones that couldn't be played on the foredeck - the other piano. The musical boxes - just because I don't like the picture of sailors sitting around the deck singing to music boxes (my prejudice ). And the drums and bugles, that couldn't be used for singing songs on the foredeck, we are left with one banjo and one concertina. Sorry I have been so long replying to this - I am still reading. I hope to have some more to post shortly.

Fiddle players have the advantage on us - over hundreds of years of development of the instrument, they evolved a "chin rest" to stop just this kind of trouble. Can someone design a chin rest for the concertina? [][]

An urgent trip to Paris is definitely required. I have a loupe - I'll bring it over as well

I like his hat! (and the one on the far right mouth organ player). Is that a zither in the middle? (Or an autoharp) - neither are cliche sailor's instruments.

Perhaps we could get together about 30 of these - tuned to different notes and produces a "concertina angklung band". But perhaps an English variant would be better - two notes per instrument might be too confusing. (An angklung band consists of a collection of bamboo "bells", each player being responsible for one note only. It sounds wonderful).

When I click this link at work, I get the message "The Websense category "Sex" is filtered.". I tried it in the privacy of my own home - quite disappointing. (Clicking the link, that is). On the other hand - it looks like an interesting bar, and worth a visit.

Pirate music used to be hard to find - perhaps on a cart or two of CD's in Hong Kong, but with the advent of the internet, there is any amount of pirate music readily available.

There is also the cover of "The Foo Foo Band" CD, http://world.abeillemusique.com/produit.php?cle=6407 As for my readings on the subject - it impressive just how little mention of sea music of any kind I've found. It would be easier to infer that no sailor ever played any instrument. (Apart from Hugil, Doerflinger, Whall etc, there is not much mention of shanties either). It does seem that the "Foo Foo Band" was fairly common aboard passenger and cargo ships, and was open to sailors, officers, or even passengers. Lubbock mentions a band, and the book of the Champion of the Seas talks about a concert, but neither talk about instruments or what was played. The Champion of the Seas book gives details of who sang what, but nothing about the musician(s). (It doesn't mention whether it was a "foo foo" band). I think that in the period in question - 1860-19??, no-one was very interested in what the common sailors were doing to amuse themselves. Interestingly, for all our theories, in Stephen's picture, that seems to be an English concer in the lantern slide. Also the Foo Foo Band picture could easily be an English concertina. (How did you come by that picture, Stephen? Any idea of its age?). Anyway - little progress so far, but I'm still reading.

How is this project going? Am I the only slacko working on pieces that hasn't yet got up to standard?

Now there is a challenge for Bob Tedrow! From the few photos I've seen, thre seem to be some big instruments, (probably the German double-reeded ones), and a collection of smaller ones. They do seem to have been of the Anglo persuasion 'tho, and nearly always 20 button. There is a story of an old bushy, being shown an English concertina commenting on the handles having been put in the wrong place, and then after a few squeezes saying "no-one could play that thing even if it had two handles on each end".

Firstly a welcome to the wonderful and slightly wierd world of concertina.net to DCA. Tell me more about the gatherings, amplification? type of music? type of venue? (Indoors or outdoors), type of audience?

Thanks Tom, Paul, Steven and Jim. Books like the O'Brian (James Aubry) and Forester (Hornblower) series are in the "almost fiction" category since they are based on real events. If you notice some similarities between the exploits of the two heroes, is is because they were both based on a frigate captain Captain Cochrain. There is a reference to shanty singing in one of the O'Brian books - when Aubry is dismissed from the navy and commands a privateer. A lot of the references I know of that mention fiddles or violins aboard ship are likewise from the BC (Before Concertina) era. I think I remember reading that Cook hired a fiddle player to keep the crew happy and healthy. In the book "Mr Darwin's Shooter" by Roger McDonald (again "almost fiction") the main character (not Darwin) plays a mini-fiddle called Polly Pochette (spelling?). Always concerned for his crew's well being, Bligh ordered them to dance on deck while off-watch (possible to the fiddle). It is obvoiusly no use looking for any references to concertinas before about 1850, but the earlier dates are most likely to be productive, since the instrument, being a novelty then, is more likely to be mentioned. Jim - on the subject of concers in the outback - they seem to have been very important. Richard Evans in the Australian Computer Magazine many years ago pointed out that in every old photo that happens to show an outback music shop, the concertinas are always most prominent. In collections of original bush music, the instruments featured seem to be fiddles, concers and button accordians. There are some great descriptions of the bush dances. Since a concertina is fairly quiet, the player would stand in the middle of the floor to play, and if he wanted to dance himself, he would do so while playing the concer behind his partner's back! (But there are others that can tell a lot more about this than me - and they often post here). I think my Palings ad is probably fairly representative, with most of the space being devoted to concertinas. Anyway thanks all, and any suggestions of references will be gratefully recieved. I will certainly report back any results, but can't promise anything very soon.

Sorry if this is off-thread Chris, perhaps I misinterpreted your first post as implying that using the concertina for shanties is in some way "cashing in" on the ignorance of the public. My position is that experts tell us that concertinas were not used by sailors (or very rarely). This, if true, would need some explanation, and none of the explanations I've heard hold water, so to speak. For example: . Brass reads dont rust, and steel reeds seem to have been a later improvement (is this statement correct?) . Concertinas may be more fragile than claw hammers, but it was just their robustness and lack of maintenance requirements that made them so popular in outback Australia during the same era (late 19th century). I must admit to having dropped a concertina (which survived). I also recieved a concer by Aust. Post (equivalent to a Cape Horn passage?) which had had a knock sufficient to dislodge two reeds. I was able to fix it using only a small screwdriver. (Also - sailors never leave anything on a table at sea after their first trip - my experience in leaving a dozen bottles of wine on a table certainly cured me of that habit). . They were not really very expensive - at least compared to the violins that were recorded as having been used. My radical suggestion is that perhaps the experts are wrong. So - it is no point doing a "g" on this (I suppose you know what I mean). I would like instead to do some research of my own on the subject. This will be easier if I have a starting reference, so can anyone help me with that? Most of the texts I've seen are conspicuous in not dealing at all with what the sailors did in their spare time, and those that do don't have a lot to say about shanties and forebitters. Since I am very busy with other unrelated research at the moment, I can't guarantee any results in the near future, but any help would be appreciated. Thanks Rod