hjcjones

No! Music is not tablature. Notation is universal, and can be applied to any instrument, or to none, and it's easy to understand and read because it is universal. Tablature is specific to an instrument. You can take a piece of notation and play it on anything, but it doesn't tell you how to play it. A piece of tablature, however, can only be played on the instrument its written for. Guitar tab is meaningless for banjo, melodeon or concertina. It's even meaningless for another guitar if it's tuned differently. If you want to communicate a piece of music as widely as possible, then use notation. But if you want to record or communicate a particular fingering for a particular instrument, then tab does it far better than music, precisely because it is specific. It is not a question of conveying more information, but conveying different information.

Tablature is not usually used as an alternative to notation, but is complementary to it. Usually, tablature appears as an extra staff alongside the conventional notation. The notation provides the musical information, while the tablature shows the fingering. This is why it's popular for fretted instruments, which offer lots of different fingering possibilities. It's also simple, since the line represents a string and a number the fret, so it can easily sit alongside the notation. It is possible to play direct from tab, since it can include some musical information, but in most cases its easier to have the notation as well. Concertina tab is more difficult, since the buttons aren't so easily represented and bellows direction as well as fingering must be shown. There is clearly a need for it, perhaps the reason no single system has emerged is that there is no simple way of doing it. Everyone ends up using a system which suits them, but may not be easily understandable by others. The other problem is that virtually no two anglo keyboards are the same, so that tab for one instrument might not work for another.

Trite, no, but I would argue that most (OK, not all) tunes are predictable to a degree. Take a well-known tune, picked more or less at random: "Nine Points of Roguery". It can be broken down into 2-bar phrases. It starts with a 2-bar Phrase 1, followed by Phrase 2. Phrase 1 is then repeated, followed by another new Phrase 3. The B music starts with a new Phrase 4, then repeats Phrase 2, repeats part of Phrase 4 again with a different ending, and finishes by repeating Phrase 3. This tune is a 3-parter, so it's more complex than most, but the C part basically repeats the A part an octave higher - OK it finishes slightly differently but by then you've got the idea. So you only have to pick up 4 short motifs, with some small variations, to have got the tune. (I've simplified this to a degree, on the other hand I've ignored where single bars are repeated in different phrases, eg bar 3 is a repeat of bar 1 except for one note) This pattern is very common in Irish and English tunes. Of course, some tunes are more complex, and some phrases with awkward intervals or unexpected accidentals may be more difficult to pick up, and may require some practice away from the session, especially on an instrument like concertina where you may want to experiment with alternative fingerings. That's a good analogy, and it's hard to disagree. The question is, how much does it matter? It clearly does in your session, because you and your friends have certain expectations. The sessions I go to are perhaps more tolerant of mistakes. It is usually understood that a degree of restraint will be shown during the process of picking up the tune, and the true beginners are usually (unfortunately not always) too reticent to put themselves forward anyway. The more experienced players should be able to play to at least 80% accuracy fairly rapidly, and if they're discreet with the other 20% it should hardly show. There will also be more harmony playing and chording going on in these sessions (to drag this reluctantly back on-topic ), which helps to mask any mistakes. If your session doesn't encourage harmonies then I can see that any mistakes will be more obvious and more distracting. (BTW, if any of this comes across as appearing critical of your session, that's certainly not intended. It just works to different guidelines to what I'm accustomed to) I'm sure that traditional musicians learned the standard tunes from their regular sessions by osmosis, just as we do today. But people travelled even then, and when a visiting player brought new tunes they would have only a limited opportunity to learn these. I remember the traditional English melodeon player Bob Cann explaining how visiting musicians, such as gypsies and migrant Irish workers, would often appear briefly in his area and he would try to collect as many of their tunes as he could while they were around. This is how the tunes spread and how variants appeared. Anyway, I'll soon be heading off to session in an obscure pub in an obscure part of the Welsh Borders, where I expect to enjoy good beer, good music and good company for a couple of days. If this thread's still running when I get back, I'll let you all know how it went.

It sounds like it's a great session and I'm sure it benefits from the self-restraint you and the others appear to show in not joining in if you don't know the tune. If I start up a new tune, what usually happens is that one or two of the more competent players will start to join in once they've got the general idea. This might involve playing chords and harmonies until they've got the idea of the melody (and I understand that this wouldn't be welcomed in your session). That's often my own approach if I hear a tune I don't know, but I can usually get it within a couple of times through, unless it has some unusual phrases that are harder to work out. But there are times when I can't get it, and then I stop. It depends what you mean by "noodling". To me it suggests fumbling around on the instrument in a fairly haphazard way, trying to pick up bits of the tune. This can certainly be annoying, especially if the noodler is several bars behind everyone else. However, with an understanding of the repetitive structure of most tunes (from the British Isles, anyway) and a good repertoire of the standard musical phrases, someone with a good ear who knows their way around their instrument can often pick up a tune very quickly without getting in the way of those who already know it. Actually, what I find more annoying than noodlers (as long as they're noodling quietly) are those who just play along without really paying attention to what everyone else is doing. Especially when they're not even in the same key as the rest. I agree in part with what you say. However the traditional players did not have the benefit of CDs or recorders, and must have learned how to pick up tunes from only one or two hearings. I think that's a useful skill to have, although a recorder certainly makes it easier!

It's fascinating just how much sessions, and people's attitudes, seem to vary. If I'm understanding him correctly, Phantom Button's session sounds quite disciplined, with everyone knowing the tunes and expected not to join in tunes they don't know. I'm sure it's great, but I'm not sure I'd fit in I'm curious how new tunes get introduced to the session, if only tunes known to everyone get played. For me, one of the pleasures of sessions is to pick up new tunes, and if I introduce a new tune myself I'm disappointed if someone doesn't try to join in - it's not meant to be a solo performance. I must admit that the sessions I'm used to (both English and Irish) are much more free and easy, and most things are tolerated. It's first and foremost about having a good time playing music with friends old and new. Perhaps sometimes the music can get a bit ragged, but when it all comes together it's unbeatable. Robin mentioned that feeling of getting in the groove, and when that happens it can be as good as playing in a rehearsed band, with the added knowledge that it is unique and unrepeatable.

I don't think fiddle tunes lack 'potential' harmony. It's just that the Irish musical tradition, for whatever reason, just doesn't seem to give it much importance. They seem to prefer melodic embellishment and decoration instead. After all, they took the Anglo Concertina, which is ideal for playing chords and harmonies, and play it in a way which uses neither.

So, just to be clear... it wasn't specific to Irish music? That's right, as far as I can recall... That's my recollection, too, going back to a similar date, although at that time I was more into song sessions. Oh dear, that's another can of worms opened...

It often has that meaning in musical usage too

Then I can only assume you never heard the late Peerie Willie Johnson accompanying Shetland fiddle tunes. You are right to be distrustful of rules where traditional music is concerned. However trad tunes tend not to follow the regular scales, and even those which appear to be in a standard major scale often show subtle variations. For example, in English music it is not uncommon for a scale to contain a "normal" 7th note on the way up but a flattened 7th on the way down. Playing the bog-standard 7th chord would detract from this. Musical theory aside (not my strong point anyway), my ears tell me that 7th chords don't work very well for trad tunes. I decided this for myself long ago, long before I heard it as a "rule". But perhaps that's just conditioning based on a folk revival idea of how folk music should sound.

Over here, sessions are sessions - ITM doesn't have copyright on the term. We have Irish sessions, English sessions (contrary to widespread belief, there is such a thing as English music), Scottish, Welsh, French, Klezmer, Scandinavian, Bluegrass and pretty much anything else you can think of. We also have mixed sessions where anything goes. I've noticed a frequent assumption on concertina.net that traditional music means Irish music. Perhaps the OP made the same assumption - he didn't specify Irish music in his original question, but many of the replies assumed that. However, many of us play other types of music (and I often play Irish, but not on concertina) and many of the responses reflected that, and pointed out that in these sessions the culture and expectations are often quite different from many Irish sessions I think that on the whole the response to this thread has been broadly in agreement, so far as Irish music is concerned. Irish music emphasises the melody, and there seems to be a widespread feeling that harmonising is not part of this tradition. Whether it "muddies up" the music depends on the skill of the musicians - the Chieftains seem to get away with it pretty well - but it's also a matter of preference, not just of the individual but of the collective session. English sessions are quite different. They tend to be dominated by melodeons (and English melodeon, unlike Irish accordeon, makes full use of the chord buttons), and concertinas played chordal-style, so there is already a lot of harmony going on. The emphasis is on rhythm, and it is expected that in the course of a tune we will play around with rhythm, chords and counter-melodies. Does it get muddied up? Well, to be honest, quite often yes, but when it comes together its fabulous. Absolutely. Whether its because of "dogma", a view of the tradition, of just a common preference, it's always important to get understand and respect the culture when you visit a session.

Not "interviewed" them, no, but I think I'd soon realise if they didn't like what I was doing. I've had no complaints, and my contributions usually seem to be appreciated. Without wishing to appear boastful, I think I'm good enough, and experienced enough, to get away with it. I'll also freely admit that I don't always get it right, but that's sessions for you. What makes sessions special is the unrehearsed, spontaneous interaction between musicians. Sometimes it can go horribly wrong, but when it works you can get the most marvellous results that hours of rehearsal couldn't produce. Well, yes, if only one or two people are playing then will be very obvious if you to try to busk a tune you don't know, and if you attempt harmonies your efforts will be very exposed. But if the session is in full swing then it is possible, and I believe permissible, to join in. As for trying to improvise a harmony or counter-melody to a tune you don't know, it depends on how skilful you are at it. If you have a grasp of the tune's structure then it might be easier to find harmonies that fit than to try to play the melody without making mistakes. Above all, as I mentioned in my original reply, it's about the culture of the session in which you're playing. Some take things very seriously (not necessarily a criticism) while others welcome the opportunity to "experiment and noodle around", as you put it. My local session is a fairly eclectic mix, but often contains quite a few players of Irish music. Last week, they weren't there. A 5-string banjo started "Man of the House". It's a popular tune at the session, and usually played fairly straight. His style of playing gave a slightly different emphasis to the rhythm, which the others picked up on, and it soon turned into a syncopated version which really had some swing to it. I thought it was great, but had any of the "Irish purists" been there I think they would have been horrified.

I do not doubt you, but I have heard people make this claim with no proof when the pudding was served. I think the best instruments for attempting this are the mandolin and fiddle. The fiddle can be played quiet and it's up near the player's ear, and the mandolin can be played quiet as well and sounds like accompaniment on the "difficult phrases." But the concertina is a different story. For the player to hear what he's doing the sound has to reach his ears. What other players nearby hear is often louder than what the player hears and it becomes an Emperor's New Clothes sort of affair. Most folk tunes, those from the British Isles anyway, break down into three or four phrases, with slight variations. They mostly stick to the key they're written in, without too many accidentals. When you understand the structure, and have a good repertoire of the "stock phrases" that crop up regularly, it's not difficult to pick up a tune. Some tunes have a distinctive phrase which doesn't fit into the usual pattern, which can take a bit longer to pin down. They usually last only a bar or two, so it's quite easy to just hold the chord through that bit and then pick up the tune when it gets back to "normal". As I've just posted on melodeon.net, in a slightly different context, bluffing is an important musical skill

Part of the skill of playing in sessions is to listen to what's being played, and to pick up on ideas which seem to work, and quietly drop those which don't. The best sessions are those where the musicians have the talent to develop the basic tune, and sufficient awareness and lack of ego to do it sensitively. If you have this skill, then playing a harmony can be a valid way of contributing to a tune you don't know. Unfortunately, some people seem to have cloth ears and are quite incapable of hearing that what they are doing doesn't bear any relationship to what the rest of the session is playing. I find those who appear incapable of picking out the right key, or distinguishing between major and minor, particularly annoying! Personally, I'm fairly good at picking up tunes and can usually play along with new ones without much difficulty, although I may have to quietly fudge any difficult phrases! In fact, there are a lot of tunes which I can only play in sessions, but can't remember if I try to play them on my own. English music sessions tend to be fairly easy-going, and taking liberties with the melody, rhythm and harmony is positively encouraged, provided the result sounds good. Some Irish sessions are the same, but most in my experience are less receptive to this. It's all to do with the culture and expectations of that particular session. Picking up on these is another session skill, because they are usually unspoken, but it's nevertheless essential to understand them if you're going to participate. If you're joining in a session for the first time you need to hold back at first, until you understand how the session operates, what styles of music and approach are likely to be accepted, which individuals dominate, and so on. Then you can start to assert yourself without getting up the regulars' noses.

Micing concertinas is always tricky if you're in a band. If you have the mics close enough to pick up just the concertina without also getting the other instruments, then you risk hitting them with the instrument. Like Chris, I don't like playing between 2 mics as it feels constricting. A single mic pointed at the bellows is possibly not ideal, but is a good compromise. Even so, I don't like having to stay fixed in front of the mic, unless I'm sitting down. For gigging, I currently use Microvox. I have them strapped to the outside of the anglo's hand straps, using velcro cable ties. I found that having them on the end plates picked up too much mechanical and air noise. However they are very susceptible to feedback. The plus is that I am completely free to move the instrument around. In the past I used mics fitted internally, which worked well for me, but I had trouble replacing the leads so I switched to Microvox. For more information about these see http://www.hjcjones.freeserve.co.uk/music/...ertina/mike.htm

Like Peter, I'm more a musician than a dancer, but I've usually heard it described as "Step Hop" - the emphasis is on the initial step, followed by a little hop. "Bicycle Step" also perfectly describes the backwards shuffle on the hop, as if you're running on the spot, rather than just hopping up and down. When I do get to dance (about once a year!), it's one of my favourites, because the music is slow enough, and should have enough swing, to really get into it with your whole body. It's also one of my favourite rythms to play, for the same reason. Jody is right when he picks up on the subtle playing slightly off the beat which is characteristic of a lot of English music.

Thanks for that, Peter. I'm afraid I can't shed any light on the date, but 1992 or 1993 sounds about right. I'm still playing that 40-key C/G Crabb. The dodgy moustache has thankfully gone.

But, as with so many things, most of the people on the planet are simply wrong And isn't there something odd in some one-horse town in the middle of nowhere describing itself as a "city"? In England, a city has a charter from the Crown. A Cathedral is the seat of a bishop, so the Church decides what is a cathedral. For obvious reasons, a cathedral would often be in a city, but the two things are entirely separate. Most importantly for the purposes of this thread, an underground railway is not a defining characteristic of a city

For me, digital photography has opened up areas of creativity that I shied away from with 35mm. I like taking photos, but it is well down the list of priorities when it comes to my hobbies. I was reluctant to get into the processing side, for lots of reasons: I didn't have the space for a darkroom, or the money for the equipment and materials, or the time to devote to it. But with digital, it has become possible to do all the things that would previously required a darkroom. With music, it's the reverse - I don't feel I have the time, space or money to go digital. However much I might hanker after a midi anglo and a Streb melodeon, unless the Lottery comes up trumps my instrument collection is likely to remain exclusively analogue.

Mark Evans has put his finger on it, the presence of a live audience makes all the difference. Plus the knowledge that you have a responsibility to give them a good show, and your own self-respect also requires it. And don't underestimate the power of fear - stage fright can be used positively! I find it much harder in my local session, at the end of a hard week doing a "proper job". My mind goes blank, and I can't remember any tunes. I end up either playing the same old stuff as I always play, or trying something half-remembered and making a hash of it. Fortunately, the other session musicians are in the same boat, and are sympathetic. We soon warm up, but until then it can be hard to get started. I took a day of work recently to do some recording, set up all the gear, picked up the instrument and ... nothing! My heart wasn't in it, I couldn't summon any enthusiasm, and my playing was rubbish. I packed up and took the dog for a walk instead. But at a gig, I never have a problem, even if I've been at work all day. By the time we've finished the sound-check and the audience is in, the adrenaline's up and I'm raring to go!

It's a great idea, and its nice to see the Arts Council encouraging participation - all too often it gives the impression that the arts are only for professionals, and we exist merely as paying customers. But it's half-cocked, and not as helpful as it appears at first glance. 0% interest sounds very attractive, but the payback period is too short (9 months) and you have to pay the 10% deposit. So if you borrow the maximum, that's £222.22 per month - that's quite a lot out of taxed income. Plus the £200 deposit. What makes a loan affordable is not the rate of interest but the monthly repayment. You could borrow the full £2200 (£200 deposit + £2000 loan) at commercial rates over two years and pay less than £100 per month - that's much more affordable; OK, you end up paying an additional couple of hundred in interest, but you don't need to find the initial deposit. Borrow over a longer period and the monthly payments are of course even lower. It's a pity they don't offer it on the same basis as the Cycle to Work Scheme, which allows you to buy a bike out of pre-taxed income, which means you can get one for effectively up to half-price. The other problem is that you can only purchase through specific retailers. This makes it difficult for anyone after a "non-mainstream" instrument (not just concertinas), or who wants something from a specific instrument maker, or from a private seller. It's clearly helping a lot of people to buy instruments, and that's a good thing. But the rules they've put in place make it (probably unintentionally) too narrow. In particular, it is unlikely to be of much assistance to a young aspiring professional musician or music student, who needs a good-quality instrument which they may not be able to obtain from the relatively restricted list of retailers (this is not to say that those retailers don't stock good quality instruments, rather that such a player will have their own particular needs and will need to track down exactly the right instrument from wherever it can be obtained).

I received a book of humorous quotations which included this: "Anyone who has heard certain kinds of performance on the concertina will admit that even suicide has its brighter aspects" Stephen Leacock Of course, I should burn the book immediately. However, despite myself I can't help feeling a slight twinge of sympathy for his point of view...

I am undecided on this point. When the internet world was a lot smaller, a culture of using nicknames rather than real names grew up. By the time I got involved, this was still widespread, but starting to break down. I registered on cnet using my real name, because (a) using a nickname seemed to me to be slightly silly and a bit juvenile, and ( I couldn't be bothered trying to think of one. Also, like Alan, I prefer to deal with real names, particularly as (perhaps unlike other internet forums) many of us know one another in the real world. But I have no problem corresponding with nicknames, and many on here append their real names anyway. Since I registered, we have all become rather more aware of the risk of identity theft, and now I rather wish I had registered more anonymously. There doesn't seem to be a way of changing my registered name, and to go to the bother of re-registering under a new name seems a bit of a waste of effort, when my details are now scattered all over the internet.

Being somewhat distracted at this time of year I've just realised I've missed the chance for a free re-listing on Ebay, and I don't fancy paying for another try. I'm still hoping for some interest from cnet, so make me a (sensible) offer. More details of the instrument can be seen on Ebay (item ID 290158295197) but the sale there is closed. Or please PM me with any questions. Contrary to what the original Ebay posting (mistakenly) said, I am prepared to sell it worldwide. Buyer pays postage etc.

Father Ken was widely known as a bit of a "character", even by those who'd never met him. He certainly had a reputation in Morris circles as being a bit of a stickler for doing things the correct way, and I think a lot of us found him a bit scary! I came across him a few times at Morris meetings, but only met him once, at the ICA Music Festival in 1983. He was rather soberly dressed by his standards, as I recall, but with a black cape and cane with a silver duck's-head handle he still made an impression. I was entered in the "playing by ear" section of the competition and I still have his adjudication sheet, in the flamboyant handwriting evident in Peter's earlier post. He was kind enough to be complimentary about my playing, which coming from him meant a lot to me. As the sub-title to this thread says, they don't make them like that any more. Ironically, in view of his small stature, he truly was a larger-than-life character of the sort we don't seem to get nowadays. I regret that I didn't hear more of his playing when he was alive, and look forward to hearing Roger's recording when it finally reaches the internet.

But that applies to most notation, unless it has been deliberately transcribed to show ornamentation etc. As a rule, the notation of traditional music is just the bones of the tune, and it's up to the player to put flesh on it Well, there are lots of versions of these tunes. If you can't find the one you're after, they will at least give you a starting point to write it out yourself As with anything on the internet, you have to treat these with caution. However the widespread use of ABC has allowed the easy dissemination of a large number of tunes. I remember when tracking down a tune could take weeks or even months to find it in a book or on a record, and that was only if you knew the name in the first place. This applies to any source. These tunes are played differently everywhere, and you have to adapt to the version of the session you're in As someone whose ability with notation is patchy at best, it is a quick and easy way for me to transcribe tunes and check that I've got it right by playing it back on the computer. There are several software packages and some are better than others. But the great strength of ABC is that you don't need a computer, you can jot a tune down on a bit of paper and type it up later.