d.elliott

I am not convinced about this gentle playing in of new reeds. Technically, I can see a possible logic for brass (tongued) reeds, and for new tongues made from old steel. However, for tongues made from modern fine grained alloy steels??? I certainly believe that all reeds do settle and find natural positions with play, but this is more about their gapping and set. My view is to play, play and play again, any music that you want as long as no one throws anything at you. I also believe that new instruments settle and improve with play anyway, action bellows, pad seals and all the rest, so lets not get too hung up on this point. Is more imprtant to store the instrument properly, in its dedicated box, bellows firmly together. Dave

Paul, I havn't seen an example of what you describe, so I was not aware of this fact. I certainly sounds like a deep stained lighter wood, and I would guess the you are right about the pear wood. Thanks very much for the information, I will log it away for future reference. On the subject of fruit woods, my favourite has always been cherry wood, both to work in and to view. One day I shall get my hands on an absolute wrecker of an instrument and replace the outer shell with cherry, just for the fun of it. Yew heartwood would look even better, but is too brittle and dificult to work. Dave

Chris you commented: I think I assumed it was ebony because it was a black veneer, and if you are going to ebonise something, why would you put an ebonised veneer on, why not just ebonise the base wood? To find out you would have to take off the end plate and not many people do that. Maybe it is just a really good job of ebonising. I hope I never ding it enough to find out! I think you will find that the wood would have been ebonised ebony. The ebony wood is not full black, and can have light streaks to it, do it needed deep staining to make it even. The veneer may haaaave been needed to cover some elements of construction, but mainy as a bumber strip so small chips and scratches on the case edges don't go through an ebonised layer onto a different coloured wood. Dave

The taper on the key holes is as the concertinas were made, 'ream' out to clear the old glue and debris, but do not diminish the size in length of the 'parallel' land. This taper is not an invention of mine, be assured! Chris, stepped drillling is a little messy and as you say the bush needs supporting. I made new ends recently, and thought that I could get-away with a longer parallel section on the outer end of the key hole, however the result was too much friction in the key hole after bushing. Thankfully I only did a handful of holes and then did a trial. I increased the depth of the taper, reducing the length of parallel hole, re bushed and all was fine. This was on an instrument with 100% new springs. Picking up Chris's other point about hiding the bushes, if the instrument is wooden ended, then sink the top surface of the bush to be just below the surface of the wood, it makes a neater and less ragged looking job. If metal ended then bush the full length of the bushing board, the metal thickness will cap the bush for you. Dave

Don't forget that thumb straps have a linen or fabric lining, or in-fill Dare I say: see the Concertina Maintenance Manual withou getting shot at? Dave

If you are thinking of 'local' repairs to worn areas, then please don't. Unless you are skilled at putting 'umpty' layers of french polish on, then take it to an antique furniture restorer, take out the action box felt bushes, and expect to have to ream out the key holes and re-bush the action box ends. Don't let them sand off too much wood from around the key holes as these are tapered with a very short parallel section at the outer end of the hole. You then have the decision to take about re-polishing the veneered and ebonised action box frame edges to match. If you want to do its yourself get pre-made up spirit black to re apply the stain, after having removed the old finish and re-flatted the worn and chipped woodwork. Then use ebony 'flavoured' black french polish let down with methelated spirits to build up the full depth of the polish, may be in excess of a dozen coats, flatting back every so often. Apply with a cloth 'rubber' not a brush. Finsh with superfine 'OOOO' grade wire wool and wax I can give you material suppliers if you are UK based Or just see the character of the instrument, and leave well enough alone. Dave

Paul, I can vouch that the pin hole Aeola hass solid ebony finger plates. I actually tried to let in replacement ebony patches but the old wood was too dry and powdery, it rubbed off on my fingers. On the subject of woods, I may have mentioned elsewhere that I am repairing a very large Wheatstone bass, mainly a joinery or perhaps a cabinet making task. Here the ends are ebonised mahogany (elongated hexagon shape), accross the points major axis 15ins, accross the flats minor axis 11.5ins) The framework is all mahogany, veneered with ebony. The pad board is mahogany with a sycamore action plate mounted onto it. The main chambers are built into the casing, and have a sycamore reed plate perminently built onto the case to form a sandwich, with the chambers in the middle. Being single action, the reeds are surface mounted onto the 'underside' of the reed plate. There are some bigger reeds that have suspended chambers. So why use scamore for the reed plate, I can also see (through pad holes) that the chamber walls are also sycamore.?? Also for the suspended chambers a mix of chamber walls -mahogany and for the reed mounting and the chamber 'underside' wall -sycamore, ?? Can it be for acoustic properties or for wood working & detail properties? any thoughts team?? Should this be continued under 'Construction and Repair'?? Dave

Most points seem to have been covered, but I'll add a couple of others: I have seen Lachenal use ebonised mahogany for their 'ebony' ended instruments, most manufacturers used ebony veneer around the action box frames, or solid ebony for moulded details on say the detail around metal ends. Presumably so if the wood is chipped or banged the different colour won't grin through. I have a pin hole six sided aeola (as mentioned above) and I have had to make complete new ends due to teh shrinkage and collapse of the orginal solid ebony end plates. I used sycamore and ebonised it. I have also seen that Crabb have used ebonised birch plywood. Ebony does dry, crack/ check and can go quite powdery with age, Rosewood seems far more stable, durable and can be very attactively figured. One final thought like a black coachworked car, its always harder to keep a black wooden ended instument looking at its best. Dave

Edward, have a look at the ICA (International Concertina Association) Site: concertina.org They have a page dedicated to contacts for local groups. Being truly international they/ we (as I am a member too) even cover such diverse locations as Bristol, Tyneside, and Yorkshire, they may have something in your area. Bye the Bye, This is not an invitation to debate the true nature of the word *international* in the ICA context. Scotland, Wales, England and Yorkshire are all part of the United Kingdom, and as such are separate if they need to be united! Sorry Edward, this is an 'in joke' amongst those who sometimes follow this site and contend that the ICA is actually the UKCA Dave

Gene, Not without stripping down the instrument, I will gladly do this if it helps, but before I do, is there any oither information you wish me to gather? The white(ish) wood is sycamore, the reddish wood is mahogany. I believe that this is one of the reasons why the glue failed, as a result of wood shrinkage/ movement at different rates. I have another much much bigger contrabass (thought to be one of only two suviving of an original ten made) for repair to chambers, again the woods have shrunk at different rates causing significant air losses. Here the chambers are built into a sandwich between a reed plattern and the pad board. There are then additional chambers for some of the VERY big reeds that are mounted above the main reed plattern. In this case the reeds attachment security is not an issue but air losses are. In reviewing big instruments its worth remembering that wood movement, and the inevitable resultant cracks, glue failures and gaps all become a significant factor in an instruments performance characteristics. Dave

I like the improved functionality, especially the ability to post pictures, but for convenience the tree structure was, for me, more convenient. Never the less, I echo Chris's thoughts, and express thanks to Paul, and accept with gratitude that which is there! Dave

Thanks Tom, I had not considered the reflection and additive factors of wave forms, but there must be an element of randomness in the physical phenominon applied to un-tuned chambers, even the existence of a white -noise effect making the reed sound softer. When I was at University in the late 1960's (it even feels like a millenium ago) one senior lecturer told us that 'understanding in enlightenment, but knowing what works is a gift, always listen to practical experience'. Unfortunately I don't always do this. Taking Jim's point there is 'resonance' and 'resonance', and we don't all understand all the physics, but shared experience will help us develop understanding, I appreciate your input, as well as Goran's and Jim's. Dave

Goran, I know your views on this topic, and I have tried to steer away from claiming 'resonance' in its technical sense, what I said was: 'From this experience I would conclude that mechanical connections are important to the resonant characteristics of the reeds, and that cumulative minor air leaks can have the effect of signficantly reducing a reed's sound volumes.' Tis makes two points, air losses may have an effect on reduce reed amplitued, and the mechanical connection transmitting vibrational energy to the chamber pipe and the pad board. I have tried to make public the experience gained over several months of trying to get my 'new to me' Bass up to playing standard. I am very pleased with my efforts, and I wanted to share what I had learned with others who may venture into the world of the big reed. As a thought, single acting big reed instruments to not have reedpans sat in chamois lined wells. the vibration is tangible as well as audible. I don't rule out some form of resonant factor, prefering to keep an open mind. Dave

Interesting. Are/were the pads the same diameter of and located within the circles? Jack Jack, There are two different pad diameters fitted, some of which have been clipped to fit. The location of the smaller pads (16mm) is more or less to the scribed circles, but this location is never too precise anyway. The bigger 20mm pads have no inscribed circles, so its by eye and experience. I use four small pencil marks as guides. Dave

funny you should make that deduction, I had always assumed a two stage cutter as well, but I am currently servicing a very nice edeophone baritone, and this has some of the scribed circles eccentric to the relevent pad holes. Dave

These scribed circles are used on lachenal, wheatstone and other 'traditional' makes, I was told by Steve Dickinson that their purpose is to help align the pads on assembly. Certainly when they are not present I usually put faint pencil marks on the pad board for that purpose. I can only accept that Steve is right, and use them with thanks to the chap who had the idea in the first place. Dave

Well, being in America, I suppose I should also in fairness point out that I also own a number of firearms... (*) (Grin) --Dave Finally, if there any readers of this forum planning a career of stealing expensive concertinas from owners around the world, be aware that the big money in this occupation is most likely from selling the movie rights for use as a slapstick comedy after you are caught at home in a room that looks like Chris Algar's web site picture. Again, most emphatically Dan Madden Chaps, Just thinking of the number of stolen instruments reported around, and more recently the two missing Morse from the Music Room in the UK. As for myself, we in the UK don't have guns, (although I am a qualified rifle coach and once shot in an international competition (came 86th out of 550 entrants!) ). So these days I have a trusty catapult, but the cat won't keep still. When we were allowed to hold firearms in the UK, the Police used to insist that anonimity is the best form of security. hence my 'health warning' Dave

Check that the 'set' of the reed tongue above the reed frame is not excessive compared with similar reeds of the same size. However I still favour a valve problem, is the reed on the chamber side or the underside of the reed pan? Dave

has anyone thought that advertising the ownership of multiple expensive instruments is not the best home security policy? Dave

Dave, I am sorry for your loss, although I have never heard of the individuals you mention, nor of the names of any of the other victims of the 11th September attack. I have to say that I took Dick's comment as a bit of light entertainment, never considering the parallel that you related to. I recognise that with the approach of the anniversery some people who had close connections with those directly affected by the attack will be feeling particularly sensitive. I think it behoves us all to remember the international nature of this forum, and recognise national as well as personal sensitivities. I freely confess that I would not have dreamed of the association until you pointed it out, indeed it took a few moments to work out what you were getting at. Living in the UK we are a step removed from the direct consequences of that day. regards and regrets Dave Elliott

I think you misunderstood, Dave. I said, "Write if you need bail." I didn't say I'd send it! I think the family and the rest of the street would be more than pleased to see the Konzertina Politzi (KP, as in the nuts) drag me off in chains just to stop me playing and torturing poor little tinas. They would pay you the bail money just to get rid of me! Dave

Dave, can you clarify if the notes with the 'hitch' sound on belows closing or opening? Taking Rich's point; if the problem is on expanding the bellows it is more likely to be the valve in the chamber, probably catching on the chamber wall. Somethimes the valves are punched correctly to grain, but not quite squarely through the leather, this can leave the 'fluffy' side (underside) of the valve protruding out on one edge, a little from its top surface. If this protrusion is to the chamber wall, then it can be catching without being obvious. Use a scalpel or small scissors to trim off the excess 'fluff'. Then stretch the valve as Rich describes, it usually works. Dave

Be careful, Dave. Someone may report you to the SPCA (Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Aeolas). WAIT! That knock on the door could be the Concertina Police! Write if you need bail, Dick won't get me I wore gloves and a false beard to cover my usual beard, but the bail money would be nice please. SPCA, is that the secret millitant arm of the CPA (Concertina Preservation Association, nothing to do with the Child Protection Agency as some believe) Dave

Mine is the cut-away picture used on the front of my concertina repair book. If you look closely it shows my Aeola treble: key board, action and reed pan. I had a hell of a job glueing the concertina back together after the photo was taken; but thankfully it still works and you cannot find the join! Dave

wow!! well done , I even understood some of it! The comment that the instrument size is a limiting factor is quite important. Its worth remembering that CW would have worked empirically, without the aid of even the basic analysis equipment and science. Dave