d.elliott

I have only just picked up on this thread, but here is my contribution, we have a pin hole six sided Aeola, with the 'Aeola' embossed into the ebony end plates. The reeds are screw and clamp type and its serial is 22428, it's label is 'West Street & Charing X. Any one wanting further information please let me know. Due to its semi destroyed condition I have had to replace the bellows, but noticed no engraving on the bellows frame leathers before this was done. Dave E

For the record, and over the last few years, The Yorkshire Concertina Club regularly played a three part arrangement of 'The Entertainer' futhermore the YCC have played out in performance the 'Yorkshire Concertina Club Rag' again a three part arrangement and finally a new piece: 'Bernie the Rag Time Ferret' has currency. I must acknowledge the 'Yorkshire Concertina Club Composer of the Last Millenium' John Willis for his arranging and composing skills. Dave

We don't argue, being grown men, we debate! then we sulk. as for discordians, misnomered piano, well Mark did say Royal CONCERTINAS, so a discordian, even in mufti, will never get through passport control. Dave

Mark, We will be there Dave E

Glass in hand, not for beverage. . I have used plate glass to check/ judge the seal on the bellows frame edge gasket. Simply by pressing the open end of the bellows onto the glass and lifting by the opposite sealed end of the instrument and judging the degree of suction. It was all too imprecise to be useful but when you get a good seal then the bellows really stick. Dave

Dave P & Pete, Newcastle 'Brown Gum', 'Scotch' Chasers, So......... I suppose that PVA is Particularly Vile Ale, actualy we are all close enough together to meet for a pint, perhaps a bit of bonding? (probably supping sump oil, knowing you Dave) Dave E

Dave P pint of PVA eh! a certain cure for the runs (of triplets), not that we are at all 'stuck up' in South Yorkshire. Glad your advice to Greg includes the comment about the re-setting of the pan support blocks, I won't say which adhesive I would use for want of starting another debate. My comment on the chamois gasket problem would include the need to select a thickness of chamois that allows for some compression when compared with the projecion of the bellows leather above the end of the bellows frame, and the need to make sure that the reed pan is held tightly, again as the chamois will compress in years to come. Other than that, wish you well Greg, Dave's point about leaving a chamber wall gasket 'overhang' to allow for trimming and chamfering is a good one. Dave E

Dave P, as we live next door to each other (in internet terms), perhaps we should settle this over a pint of not too de-natured alcholic beverage of shellac colour! Most of the good old hardware and DIY small outlets have been replaced by the large Block and Quail (B&Q) like emporia that do not seem to address the needs of people like us, yes my shellac was pre coloured, my last lot of button polish was a lot more than you paid! Most of the woodwork repairs I deal with result from damp and age causing glue failure, ye olde PVA would have prevented this. Bushings are a throw away item, I have removed bushings fitted with PVA without dificulty, yes they do compact but only after an awful long time. I think that the glue choice issue hinges around several aspects: Is one doing harm? The amount used Does one have a seperate workshop where there is space for glue kettles etc? Availability of the media How often is the job to be repeated. Most people enquiring here are people who are doing a job for the first time, many of whom may never do the job more than a couple of times (if that) again. I stay with the concepts of: avoiding harm and of maintainability, rather than reversability, but respect your views. Now on the subject of non-de-natured and bio-degraded alcohol..... Dave E

Rich, Shellac in the UK, small amounts, 500ml: £12, plus P&P. The shelf life is not very long, particularly as the usage rate is so low. Unless using the stuff for other purposes, I think that the amateur repairer, or 'once in a liftime fix it up' musician will need other answers. I probably restore six instruments a year and service around another six or eight, and my work load would use how much shellac? Hence the need to identify and use acceptable and yet conveniently available adhesives Dave

Dave, the glue that I know as UHU and Bostick are stringy, rubberish, contaminating and I would agree with your word 'Vile'. Frank, this may be what is marketed in the UK, I think its akin to Barge Cement but no doubt both companies have a wide range of products. Dave P, I don't agree with your over-riding view on reversability. The only aspects where it holds true (in my view) are where maintainability is affected: typically bellows papers, and I am coming to the same view on valve adhesion. I have recently re-valved instrument where a PVA was used, it certainly made the 'cleaning off' aspect into hard work and yes, the wood was sealed with the stuff, so I am starting to use gum, the last pot I bought was 'Golden Gum', but yes it is Stationer's supplies stuff. The other glue jobs tend to be: 1. re- bushing key holes, the job is supposed to last another eighty years, and probably only needed doing because the original glue failed so PVA is OK there 2. Wood glue failure on veneers, frameing, and all manner of wood working activity, we want these to be perminent so PVA is OK there too. 3. affixing pads, again everything is perminent unless it is eventually discarded (all except the level arm of course) so PVA is again ideal. 4. Bellows repairs, (except the papers) again these repairs are intended to be perminent fixes, or at last last the remainder of the life of the bellows. PVA is effective and has the right properties, so I go with S.D.'s recommendation there too. For most of use we use so little glue that hide glue and fancy shellacs are both impractical and uneconomic. I f you are using these media for other purposes as well then the case would be different Dave E

Jim, Without doubt there was a point at which key bushings were introduced, and yes I have seen good early (English System) instruments that were made without this feature. However within the total population I find that these these early instruments are few and far between. Of the greater part of the concertina population I think it is fair to say that the manufacturers did not go to the expense of bushing lower grade instruments. What I think I said was that key bushings are an indicator of a good instrument standard, what I did not say was that the absence of key bushing was necessarily confirmation of a poor instrument. Afterall, many anglo instruments were made with relatively large bone keys, and I don't recall that I have ever seen bone keys bushed, even on these good quality anglos. As an aside, I have wondered about if there may be a problem between sliding bone through felt, some form of pick-up perhaps, or if the bone is inherently too rough? Dave

Chris, look forward to see/hearing your web site, but this area is still on narrow gauge, my max connection speed 33,000 bytes per annum, watch the file sizes please! are you going to put a post on this site to let us know when the task is complete? Dave

Frank, is the UHU Glue one of the fubberish impact adhesives? if so I have had to repair concertinas where this form of adhesive has been used and it had deteriorated and left an oily deposit in the wood. Making other other glues dificult to use. I have had other examples where the valves were literally falling off. One form of impact glue uses a petrol base as a solvent (I think it's EVOSTIK Impact) this also 'strings' everywhere making its use frought with other difficulties. Some years ago I was told to use PVA on valves and pads, by Steve Dickinson. I think there is a lot more awareness of residual effects now, particularly on valve assembly, and so I use PVA let down with water and I am experimenting with the use of brown gum. Dave

Whilst not an anglo player, I would point out that a premier instument of its day was the English system six sided pinhole Aeola made by Wheatstones. No one could call this fretting exciting, complex or other than mildly interesting, and yet the instrument was top notch stuff, if sounding very 'closed in' and more than just 'mellow'. I believe the instrument 'grade' is best judges by things like: the key holes are bushed standard of wood and leather finish bone versus metal or other keys materials used, (not plain mahogany) above all the responsiveness and standard of reed work Chris, I like the rectangular instrument, I have read about them but never seen one. The design appears quite closed, so like the pin hole Aeola I would expect it to be mellow in tone, yet the area of the reed pad and would indicate plenty of room for long reeds, plenty of volume. How does it compare with its wooden ended, and metal ended fellows? Dave

Plastic wood is something you buy, use half a milligramme from a 250 gramme pack, and in three or five years time you throw away the well spoiled balance. An alternative, similar to Goran's idea, is to mix sawdust of the appropriate wood into PVA glue (White glue) to form a paste. Wet the surface of the hole/ damaged area with glue only, then quickly pack / trowel the hole with the glue & wood paste. Finally allow to harden, and away you go. Strong and effective, no waste. Dave

Sorry to interupt, Ladies. I personally don't play much Irish dance music, its just a matter of taste, prefering the English Country genre, and music hall , and folk song, and band , and .......... . However my favourite Irish Tune book is: TRADITIONAL SLOW AIRS of IRELAND by Tomas O'Canainn (Appologies for not being able to put sqiggly accents over the appropriate letters in this gentleman's name.) ISBN 0 946005 84 2 (Ossian 118/119) Some of the tunes run at a crotchet mm= 50, the fast ones being around 90; but you are working with, in American terms, 1/32 notes and then having fun with interpretation and twiddles. Ok so may be its my age, but there is many a fine, slow tune played on an old .....er, er short term memory loss again. Dave

Some one had to to it Happy Christmas, and all the best for the new year Dave

Some one had to to it Happy Christmas, and all the best for the new year

So, fair Ladies, I relent! A good old English compromise: 'If music be he food of Love , play on........' but wrap 'em up, .... just for tonight. After all we are allowed to sing and play the the South Yorkshire Carols in the pubs from the first Sunday after Armistice day. D. (ave)

Transpose away, Carols are in 3 & 4 flats for singing purposes, if you are only playing them (not singing too), then put them back into brighter dance keys, after all many started out as dance tunes. Dave

Wrap them back up, its not Christmas yet, even allowing for time zones. D

Sharron, Noting your location, you are in Ali Anderson Country, all he does is shake his instruments and the notes all fall out, at the right time, in right sequence, and of the right duration. I thought it was the air up there, specially refined for pipers and concertina players. Don't tell me that that playing by autopilot can be a problem to people in Durham too! Dave (Sheffield)

Chris, I think that your observation about the need to have a 'reference' with the keys proud of the keyboard at all times is bang on target. Some of the modern concertina look-a-likes tend to have disappearing keys, and I have seen so called vintage instruments spoiled by having their dampers removed/ reduced giving a similar effect. I always ensure an even key depresion height with a notional 3.2 mm target key lift. As long as the key peg is still captured in the action board hole then I am happy, if not its a case of reducing the damper discs, and re setting key height Dave

I am not a saint, but it's not this David your talking about! Nor was I poking at any specific individual, simply putting in a plea on behalf of us dot spotters. I have been trying learn by ear for about 8 years now, but a 10 hour working day plus concertina repair activity do not lend themselves to masses of opportunty for the 'learning by ear practise' disciplines. Perhaps too many years in heavy industry, melting stages and the like have also taken their toll. I have attended sessions where any form of paper, other than a beer mat, has been a cause of jest, prompting an immediate speeding up to discourage 'lesser' mortals. Hence my sentitivity to statements about 'hating' people with sheet music etc. Moderation please! Dave

Facinating series of comments about tune books and their use, and the Paddy O'Brien link is a gem. Has anyone spared a thought for all those people who are driven away from sessions by the intolerant attitude of some of those gifted with the ability to play by ear? Why should some be turned away, just because different people's minds work in different ways, we know that people learn in different fashions and not all people have all skills in equal measure. I think we need to try to be more inclusive in our approach to what are usually fairly public events. Dave