CaryK

I do find it at least as fast and as fluid to go from (10) G to (15) D than to go from (10) G to the (23) D. But to be fair, I haven't practiced doing it the way you recommend, very much. And I'm intrigued enough by your post to try some tunes I know well while avoiding what you call "chopping" just to see if I notice an improvement in fluidity. As for what Noel taught us and how he taught it, my previous post on this is as accurate as I know how to make it. "Chopping" was not something we were taught to avoid at all; the term, or any equivalent term and the concept were never brought up and we were definitely taught to go from (10) G to (15) D in most cirmcumstances, as well as other sequential combinations using the same finger. So I will leave our differences there. Thanks for your further clarifications though.

David, we've had a similar conversation before, but I want to comment on your "Playing Across the Rows" summary. Its nicely written and pretty clear. Thank you for making it available. However, I want to take some issue with your comments about "chopping." I am mainly a cross-row player but you have played many more years than I and I respect your experience. I'm just not sure I agree with all your comments. I've been to two of Noel Hill's workshops (in the Beginner and Intermediate class) in the last 4 years. Like you, I found them to be a wonderful experience. Neither time did Noel tell us anything about or against what you describe as chopping. In fact he had us learn several tunes with specific fingerings which included chopping. You are right in describing what you first learn from Noel as one's first choice for button selection. However, Noel himself gave us 2nd and 3rd choices for tunes that required them to be phrased well. But even when he gave us specific 2nd and 3rd choices it was not to avoid chopping. Most tunes we learned each year were played with 1st choice buttons including going from Push G (button 10) to Push D (button 15) on the left hand side. We were taught to embrace this, rather than avoid it. You wrote "chopping is the one thing that most accomplished players agree should never be a part of your technique." I grant that you are a more accomplished player than I, but in spite of being an ardent follower of this site over the last 3 years, speaking with other advanced players in person, and taking Noel's classes twice, yours is the only voice I recall coming across making this point with respect to anglo playing. So if there are others out there who do or don't follow your advice about chopping, I guess I'd like to hear from them. Again, Noel Hill is a pretty "accomplished player" and what we were taught in the classes I attended is sometimes quite different (with respect to chopping) from what you are recommending. I hope this doesn't have an argumentative tone as I don't mean it to. I'm just perplexed about the strength of your own opinion on this. Thanks for listening to this still very inexperienced player.

At the risk of sounding like a Luddite or an old coot (I am neither), it wouldn't bother me if FaceBook and MySpace didn't exist at all. Too many people (especially kids) have been harmed in a variety of ways by misusing social networks (or having them mis-used against them) that IMO their value is far outweighed by the negative social and personal costs some have paid. So, no, I don't use these sites and don't imagine I ever will. I find all the on-line concertina companionship I need right here.

Hmmm . . . . .she hasn't been alive long enough to get in her 10,000 hours of practice. Must be some talent within that lass.

Michael, help me out here. I'm showing my ignorance by asking the question, but what does this mean "2 x 4/8 blocks per bar"? Each bar has two groups of 8th notes (quavers) , Think of rhythm as /1234 1234/ ; " Here's the rhythm, here's the rhythm '' or any other mnemonic (great word) Sorry I'm not a great theorist, just taught myself the dots etc this Summer. Thank you, Michael. I'm no theorist at all, hence my question.

Had a comment, but I want to re-think it first. Will get back to you. Cary

Michael, help me out here. I'm showing my ignorance by asking the question, but what does this mean "2 x 4/8 blocks per bar"?

David, thanks for explaining what you meant by "chopping". I understand what you mean now. I did mention in my earlier post that I have been to Noel's classes. I've attended twice in the last four years, first in the beginner group and then two years later, this past summer, in the intermediate group. And what I've learned from him forms the basis of how I play now. He's a fantastic teacher. However, Noel did not mention the term "chopping" or any other term that meant playing consecutive notes on a different button with the same finger as being a poor technique. So, I need to re-ask my question to you, why is this considered such bad technique? If it were I'd think it would have been brought up by Noel (though maybe it was in the advanced group). Did I miss something that you picked up from Noel?

Hang in there LDT and be patient with yourself. Many of us were (or still are) in your situation. While there is no standard tablature for the anglo, I did find one that was helpful to me at first. It is the tablature presented and used by Bernard Levy in his tutor, "Demystifying the Anglo concertina". He even has drawings of the finger positions your hand should be in when you play particular notes or chords. So at first, I took all tunes I was trying to learn and put his tablature codes above each note. It really helped me progress a lot . . . . at first. But after about a year I became familar enough with standard notation itself and its relation to my choices of buttons that I no longer have to rely on tablature. I only use it in rare cases where I want to remember a particular choice of buttons to use to play an especially tricky measure or two. If you don't play by ear and music notation is relatively new to you (my situation exactly, when I started), then I found this was not a bad way to get started being all on my own with no one to guide me at the time. I think there are 4-5 anglo concertina players in all of Western New York (that's out of a population of well over 1 million). Since then I have gone onto learning and mostly playing in a cross-row style (learned from Noel Hill), but I don't regret starting with Levy's tutor and still use what I learned to broaden and make my cross-row playing more flexible. I've seen other very logical, well thought out tablatures for anglos but Levy's is supported by detailed hand drawings, nice tunes to practice it with, and explanations as to why you play the note with that choice of fingers. If you already have Levy, stick with him, and don't worry about your pace of progress at first. It WILL pick up exponentially once you get past a certain point. If you don't have Levy, his tutor can still be purchased in several on-line stores. Best o'luck. Cary

Hi David, Thanks for defining chopping, I've never heard that term before, but I am not all that experienced a player either. But I'm a little confused. Whether you play along the rows or across the rows (my usual method), when you are practicing scales (and tunes) don't you automatically play consecutive buttons with the same finger? For example, playing Key of G scale, all the note pairs (if you play along the row) starting with G above middle C use the same finger for consecutive notes, with the exception of E to F# and F# to G. When playing the same scale across the rows, all the note pairs except B-C and C-D use the same finger for consecutive notes. I used Levy's tutor when starting out and learning along the row playing. I was instructed by Noel Hill at his workshops regarding across the row playing. Neither source of instruction made any mention of needing to avoid chopping. Why do other experienced players advise against it? When you practice scales do you always construct your scale to avoid using the same finger on consecutive notes? I've never come across this advice before. Thanks.

In F Maj I play A (following Bb pull on the outer row, left hand) by pulling A in the left hand G-row (just below Bb) on a C/G concertina. I use my left index finger for both Bb and A. I find it works very smoothly for me, though I don't know if this is standard practice or not.

Pretty definitive statements considering we still know so little about the interactions of genes within the human genome. While there may not be (and likely isn't) a "music gene" such complex "behaviors/skills" as musical aptitude, motivational ability, physical ability including hand-eye coordination, hearing ability, pitch discernment, internal rhythm capabilities, ability to focus and maintain attentiveness (and the list could go on) all contribute to the ability to appreciate, reproduce, and create music. To assume that all of us are born with the same level and types of genetic interactions for all of our genes is probably not a logical supposition. And while practice certainly helps to level the genetic playing field in music, it seems illogical that practice and a musically nurturing environment would compensate totally for all the different ways our genes are wired.

Hello David, I transpose, but only when playing with other musicians. I play mainly ITM. I have an A/E with a beautiful tone and a C/G with somewhat anemic and relatively thin-sounding reeds. I play cross-row style and learn the tunes on the C/G. I switch to the A/E because I like its tone for a particular tune, while playing solo. When I purchased the A/E I thought I would learn all the keys I most often play in (C, G, D, F, and A)with the new fingerings just for the A/E. I was naive and found that to be doable but a lot of trouble. On a few occassions a year I am asked to play with other musicians. I get the sheet music and transpose it so I can play the cross-row fingerings I learned on the C/G on my much better sounding A/E. So a tune in D gets played with Key of F fingerings on my A/E and it comes out in D. I find no trouble with this process, just takes preparation time. I wish I had the skill to be able to transpose by ear and play spontaneously in new keys, but I don't. I take the sheet music, memorize it after much practice, and then get rid of it and play it from memory changing its expression or tempo to fit how the piece is going to be played with others, or if going solo, to my own ear and respecting the type of musical tradition the tune or song is from.

Knock on wood; so far after about 2-3 dozen transactions over the past couple of years, I've had not a single problem with PayPal. Probably just jinxed myself.

I have an Edgley A/E with metal sides and leather baffles. It was crafted this way and hasn't any negative effect that I can tell. The instrument plays quite loudly when I want or need it to and the tone is excellent.

Playing in D on a 30 button C/G is not all that difficult. Just practice your key of D scale until it becomes comfortable and smooth and you'll have no problem playing ITM tunes in that key on a C/G. If you were more interested in American Folk or Morris dance music then a 30 button G/D might be useful, but not essential for success. I had poor experiences with the Hohner D40. Cannot recommend that as a way to begin. Rochelle or a Stagi from the Button Box are probably the best choices for beginning if you don't want to spend too much money. Best o'luck.

You've hit the source of the question there....is it the challenge or relaxation that makes a tune a favorite? For me, its getting the tune to finally sound good in my hands. Current favorites are: Eleanor Plunkett (Carolan tune) Captain O'Kane (Carolan tune) Gallagher's Frolics (jig) Carolan's Farewell to Music (air)

Hi Wendy, I had the same problem with "Constant Billy" as written in the Levy tutor. It took me about 3-4 months of nearly daily practice to where I could play it at about 3/4 tempo with relatively few mistakes. And now, if I don't play it for several months, it takes a good amount of practice for me to get it back into shape. Frankly, I think its a tough arrangement for a beginner as the melody and accompaniement slide between right and left hand. But, it does feel good and sounds good when you can accomplish it, which you eventually will. Some new tunes seem to just jump into my fingers and head and I have them down after a couple of hours of practice. Other tunes, like "Constant Billy" as arranged by Levy, just don't want to surrender without a fight. Hang in there, you'll get it. Be patient with yourself and your progress.

Dick, that is as nice and concise a summary of some basic music theory that I've ever come across. Thanks for posting your explanation. A lot of information in music theory articles and books goes over my head. Your post brings it down to a nice beginner's level. I appreciate it. Thanks.

I What I can't quite figure is why people in the Appalachian Mtns or some city in Japan choose to immerse themselves in music from distant parts of the world when they have a ready made local culture of music making. Perhaps because there is something in the "music from distant parts" which evokes an emotional response, so much so, that one wants to reproduce and interpret that music themself. There must be something basic in ITM (and other many other styles of music) that universally resonates. Instead of being perplexed by this, celebrate the fact that ITM is appreciated in many cultures quite different than Irish. I grew up in a Polish-Hungarian-American factory worker's household. Heard lots of live and recorded music from Poland and Hungary as I grew up. Like it, still, but don't feel any desire to explore it musically. My heart and interest have for a long time been in Irish music. Its what I appreciate. Its what resonates with me and that is what gives it relevance for me. I'm sure I can't relate to ITM in the same way as someone who grew up in the culture, but that doesn't mean that the way I do appreciate it is wrong. Someone from County Clare, may have little appreciation for the song "Who stole the kishka?" It brings back fond memories from many Polish weddings and parties I attended in the midwest, but I don't have any desire to play it or other more traditional Polish polkas. So I guess I disagree with you. Why should I have to immerse myself in the "ready made local culture of music making" when its another tradition that calls me? I think that is a very narrow view of how music tradition should propagate.

I have owned both (actually owned the 30-button Stagi W15-LN model) in the recent past and much preferred the Stagi to the Rochelle. Rochelle had the better sound, but it was terribly difficult to play due to very stiff bellows. The stiffness never worked out even after several months of near-daily playing. I've heard others comment on the Rochelle's stiffness also, but I cannot tell you if this is a common or rare issue. Rochelle is a good buy for the money compared to the Stagi, but if it is more difficult to play, then the cheaper price was not a bargain. Stagi looks and size also much preferred over the Rochelle. I sold my Rochelle and kept my Stagi till I could upgrade from it. No regrets, though my opinion is probably the minority view. Best of luck whatever your decision.

Here's a good cheat for you: Walking and playing to the rhythm of your steps. It only worked for some minutes with my bayan(15 kilos), but with concertina it may actually be a solution. That does sound like a good rhythm building technique. Unfortunately, I cannot play the concertina while standing, much less walking with it. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Unfortunately, you are absolutely correct. And I'm not born with that in my bones. It's amazing, how much work I have to put into something, that is completely natural for others. Darn it. I agree and commiserate with you. It is a standard joke in my family that I have absolutely no rhythm and never had. I can partially compensate for it with lots of focused practice, but never completely overcome what I think is a genetic predisposition toward non-rhythmical response to aural stimulus (sounds like a good doctoral dissertation doesn't it); i.e. "got no rhythm". When clapping along with others while listening to a tune or singing along with it, my wife will often subtly separate and lower my hands, because my irregular clapping is throwing off others. Controlling my rhythm (and metronomes do me no good) is my biggest challenge in playing. That may be why I'm often drawn to playing slower pieces, because I can use rhythm changes based on how I want to express a certain phrase of the tune. I find it tough to play any tune though, fast or slow, with exactly the same rhythm twice.

Josephine's Waltz (also known as Josefin's Vals) by the Swedish Group Vasen was written as a christening piece. It's one of my favorites. You can find the abc notation and sheet music here: http://www.thesession.org/tunes/index/sear...d=&mode_id=

Very astute thinking! Let's face it: one plays the anglo because one wants to be able to play by ear, and by-ear players learn faster because they understand what they're playing. Cheers, John This is off subject, but why do you think it true about learning faster with respect to playing by ear?