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Anglo Concertina - Tablature.


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#1 PeterT

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 07:35 PM

Taking a 30 key C/G Anglo, with the C row numbered 6 - 10 (Bertram Levy tutor numbering, so C = 6i [bellows going in]).

I have put the attached sheet of music (La Mourisque) together by sourcing the ABC notation, then using the Tune-o-Tron. Single line melody only. Is this method of use to anyone? :unsure:

Peter.

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#2 sidesqueeze

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 08:07 PM

Interesting - Can you remind me how the Levy system goes? It would take me all evening to find my copy of that book.
The quest for a useable tablature is worthwhile.

#3 marien

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 08:27 PM

I prefer the dots, or even worse, I like it better to play by the ear as soon as I have stored the scores in my head.

I have one concertina with numbers on the buttons but I never look at them. Hmm. let's have a look. The numbers are hard to read, they are old. There are 2 keys numbered 9 and there is no key number 6. One of them must be up side down.

I think the numbers make more sense on a 144 notes bandoneon, if you are learning teh system. But I prefer to know where to find a certain note, without having to check numbers or tables. Also on a concertina with 20 or 30 buttons, I prefer that. I think that music can be played more freely and with more compassion when it comes from the mind in stead of playing music from the dots.

Scores, dots, tablature etc. may be good for learning a tune. After learning it seems good to me to play the music without having to watch numbers or dots, and to put more of yourself into a tune.

#4 JimLucas

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 03:08 AM

Taking a 30 key C/G Anglo, with the C row numbered 6 - 10 (Bertram Levy tutor numbering, so C = 6i [bellows going in]).

I have put the attached sheet of music (La Mourisque) together by sourcing the ABC notation, then using the Tune-o-Tron. Single line melody only. Is this method of use to anyone? :unsure:

Not much use to me on my English or duets. :D

But to get serious about the anglo:

I can see that it might be helpful to a beginner who is still trying to become familiar with the keyboard, but in general I think that standard notation or even abc (:) my perspective; I know some others prefer abc) would be more amenable to sight reading. In fact, the standard notation above your tab seems necessary for indicating duration.

The one purpose for which I think it would be useful is in indicating specific fingerings, where there's more than one possibility for a given note. In fact, without your tab, I would have played the left-hand G's on the pull in the 3rd row. (In fact, I think I still will. ;))



#5 PeterT

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 05:15 AM

Can you remind me how the Levy system goes?

Keys numbered from left to right:

Accidental Row - 1 to 5
C Row - 6 to 10
G Row - 11 to 15

Key prefixed with "L" when the melody drops onto the left hand.

Regards,
Peter.

#6 PeterT

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 05:17 AM

I like it better to play by the ear as soon as I have stored the scores in my head.

Me too!

#7 PeterT

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 05:23 AM

The one purpose for which I think it would be useful is in indicating specific fingerings, where there's more than one possibility for a given note. In fact, without your tab, I would have played the left-hand G's on the pull in the 3rd row. (In fact, I think I still will. ;))

Yes, the joys of having an instrument with 30+ keys giving us the option of alternate fingering. I came up with this for someone who has a 20 key instrument (but I use the same fingering).

Regards,
Peter.

PS - are you sure that you don't want to try this on your English?

#8 JimLucas

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 06:21 AM

PS - are you sure that you don't want to try this on your English?

Oh, the tune is wonderful on the English... and on the Crane, as well as on the anglo. (And presumably on my other systems, which I'll try later.) And it's simple enough that I've already tried a few different styles of harmony/accompaniment (can I call it that, when it's on the same instrument?). But I'm having trouble figuring out which buttons match your fingering on the English, since mine have 6, 7, or 8 rows, but they're only four buttons wide. And no matter how I match them up, I can't seem to get different notes on 8i and 8o. :D

On the other hand, if your point was not the particular finger notation, but your method of producing copy containing it, I think it's a fine idea.

#9 CaryK

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 11:41 AM

Taking a 30 key C/G Anglo, with the C row numbered 6 - 10 (Bertram Levy tutor numbering, so C = 6i [bellows going in]).

I have put the attached sheet of music (La Mourisque) together by sourcing the ABC notation, then using the Tune-o-Tron. Single line melody only. Is this method of use to anyone? :unsure:

Peter.


Hi Peter;
I used Levy's tablature when I was first starting out and was learning the layout of my C/G anglo. But as I learned to read standard notation I found I no longer needed the tablature and that has saved me all the trouble of marking up my sheet music with it. However, I still do use it when I have a difficult measure to play and have various choices of fingerings on how to play it. Then I will annotate my sheet music with Levy's tablature above he measure I need it for to make a record of the fingering choice I came up with. Found it handy when re-visiting sheet music for a tune after months have gone by and I haven't fully memorized the tune to play it by ear.

#10 wntrmute

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Posted 19 March 2008 - 04:01 PM

I never bothered with tabulatures. Instead, I drew up a bunch of 'flash cards' which had just the note written up on a staff and the bellows direction (when a note could be made in either direction) on one side, and with the name of the note, the position on the staff, the bellows direction and the button location at the bottom of the other side. The button location was given pictorally using 30 circles laid out in a rough approximation of the two ends of the concertina. That helped me learn alternate fingerings and the names for all of the notes. It also helped with reading staff notation, because I get a bit confused with notes above the C two lines above the staff.

Tabulature is not really needed for Englishes, since the musical staff notation pretty much is the tabulature seeing as that's how the Englishes are laid out.

Edited by wntrmute, 20 March 2008 - 02:24 PM.


#11 sidesqueeze

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Posted 20 March 2008 - 11:16 AM

Peter,

It still seems clumsy. I read music so finding the notes is not the point of tablature for me.

Maybe a double line would be better, with button number and letter above each other and under the staff - ? That's three simultaneous rows of information. If you were to add dynamic or articulations to the musical score it would become very dense!

Maybe the use of a second color, for the i's and o's - ?

#12 stevejay

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 08:14 PM

If it's an alternate fingering, an occasional notation on the music works, but music is tablature, and conveys more info than tablature, especially for rhythm.

#13 hjcjones

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 07:31 AM

Tablature is not usually used as an alternative to notation, but is complementary to it. Usually, tablature appears as an extra staff alongside the conventional notation. The notation provides the musical information, while the tablature shows the fingering. This is why it's popular for fretted instruments, which offer lots of different fingering possibilities. It's also simple, since the line represents a string and a number the fret, so it can easily sit alongside the notation.

It is possible to play direct from tab, since it can include some musical information, but in most cases its easier to have the notation as well.

Concertina tab is more difficult, since the buttons aren't so easily represented and bellows direction as well as fingering must be shown. There is clearly a need for it, perhaps the reason no single system has emerged is that there is no simple way of doing it. Everyone ends up using a system which suits them, but may not be easily understandable by others. The other problem is that virtually no two anglo keyboards are the same, so that tab for one instrument might not work for another.

#14 hjcjones

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 07:54 AM

but music is tablature, and conveys more info than tablature, especially for rhythm.


No! Music is not tablature. Notation is universal, and can be applied to any instrument, or to none, and it's easy to understand and read because it is universal. Tablature is specific to an instrument. You can take a piece of notation and play it on anything, but it doesn't tell you how to play it. A piece of tablature, however, can only be played on the instrument its written for. Guitar tab is meaningless for banjo, melodeon or concertina. It's even meaningless for another guitar if it's tuned differently.

If you want to communicate a piece of music as widely as possible, then use notation. But if you want to record or communicate a particular fingering for a particular instrument, then tab does it far better than music, precisely because it is specific.

It is not a question of conveying more information, but conveying different information.

#15 m3838

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 12:36 PM

You guys have to look at universal tablature system by Bernard Loffett.
It's the best so far, more professional, easy to read.
Tablature is not a substitute for notation, but is a necessity, when one has number of instruments, tuned differently. For switching between D/G and C/F or A/D or Bb/E it is easier to learn by tablature.
I usually consider all DBBoxes I have as tuned to G/C. I got used to it. And most printed French music is for this tuning. But English tunes are notated for D/G mostly. I personally don't like D/G tuning, too high, so I play those tunes on lower G/C or my Club C/F. It's either Tablature or transposing. Having done both, I personally take tablature. (in any form).
Perhaps with the advent of alternative tunings for Anglo and with it's various choice of fingering Tablature serves similar purpose, but it really have to be Loffettized, it's just objectively better, like modern fonts are better than the old runes.
So I'm voting for Bernard Loffett, because I'm his personal friend...wanna-be.
On the other hand...

#16 Angie Burn

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Posted 10 April 2008 - 05:03 PM

Well I'm still learning...trying to learn to read music at the same time as learning the 'tina; so thank you Peter, I will find this useful as I am working my way slowly through the Bertram Levy book.

Of course tablature is not ideal and no substitute for reading music, but anything that helps beginners has to be a good thing, and I am sure most people will just use it as a stepping stone to help them progress....that's my plan anyway.

Also Peter, I find your Youtube videos really useful, many thanks

Angie

#17 PeterT

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Posted 11 April 2008 - 03:31 AM

Also Peter, I find your Youtube videos really useful, many thanks

Hi Angie,

Thanks! It's nice to know that I have my uses. I've not made any concertina videos since the start of this year, but I'm happy to record some more if there are aspects of playing technique which other players think could be clarified by a video.

Regards,
Peter.

#18 Angie Burn

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 03:27 PM

Also Peter, I find your Youtube videos really useful, many thanks

Hi Angie,

Thanks! It's nice to know that I have my uses. I've not made any concertina videos since the start of this year, but I'm happy to record some more if there are aspects of playing technique which other players think could be clarified by a video.

Regards,
Peter.

Thanks Peter,

I would like to have a think about this...Videos are really helpful. I can listen to a tune then and play it by ear easily, with one hand! Like a person playing the piano with one hand it's just no good at all. I watch your videos to try to see what the accompanying hand is doing, and this is the hard part because it seems that everyone just makes up their own accompanyment - is this the case? and if so would it be possible to make a video of a typical accompanyment? Oh dear I bet you are all laughing now, sorry if this is a daft question :rolleyes:

Cheers
Angie



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