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Lachenal Anglos On Ebay Sep. 2006


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#1 PeterT

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 07:41 AM

I'm puzzled by some ebay listings. :unsure:

Why bid on this "Lachenal"?? (30 key, described as having 18 buttons on either side) and in tatty condition:

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...1QQcmdZViewItem

when you could go for this nice looking 30 key Lachenal: :)

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...1QQcmdZViewItem

or, indeed, this equally nice looking 26 key lachenal: :)

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...1QQcmdZViewItem

To me, the first one would have to be a serious restoration project, but if the vendor can't even correctly count the number of keys, is there any hope?

Regards,
Peter.

#2 Geofflowes

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 05:39 PM

I'm puzzled by some ebay listings. :unsure:

Why bid on this "Lachenal"?? (30 key, described as having 18 buttons on either side) and in tatty condition:

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...1QQcmdZViewItem

when you could go for this nice looking 30 key Lachenal: :)

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...1QQcmdZViewItem

or, indeed, this equally nice looking 26 key lachenal: :)

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...1QQcmdZViewItem

Hi Peter , You appear to be a "bit" savage towards this vendor.I thought concertina afficionados were a lot more friendly and tolerant. The listing looks ok to me and well worth a bid or two. Regards Geoff.






To me, the first one would have to be a serious restoration project, but if the vendor can't even correctly count the number of keys, is there any hope?

Regards,
Peter.



#3 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 01:00 AM

I'm puzzled by some ebay listings. :unsure:

Why bid on this "Lachenal"?? (30 key, described as having 18 buttons on either side) and in tatty condition:

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...1QQcmdZViewItem

when you could go for this nice looking 30 key Lachenal: :)

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...1QQcmdZViewItem

or, indeed, this equally nice looking 26 key lachenal: :)

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...1QQcmdZViewItem

To me, the first one would have to be a serious restoration project, but if the vendor can't even correctly count the number of keys, is there any hope?

Regards,
Peter.

Well, the first one will probably go for a lower price than the third based on apparent condition. But given that, the first one's condition doesn't look all that bad to me from an exterior view: bellows are worn, but not worn through, and fretwork looks fine. Also note that this one, in worse shape, recently sold on eBay for around $1000. And even if the vendor mis-counted, he provided good pictures so potential buyers can see the actual number of buttons.

The 26-button is hard to compare to these. On the minus side, it's got fewer buttons and is from a lower-end Lachenal line. On the plus side, it's been restored and put in concert pitch and is being sold by a concertina specialist with a sterling reputation rather than by an antique dealer. So it's a bit apples vs. oranges.

Daniel

Edited by Daniel Hersh, 21 September 2006 - 01:01 AM.


#4 PeterT

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 03:13 AM

Also note that this one, in worse shape, recently sold on eBay for around $1000. And even if the vendor mis-counted, he provided good pictures so potential buyers can see the actual number of buttons.

Interesting, Daniel, I missed the one which sold earlier this month. I see what you mean about the condition.

I suppose, like everything on ebay, you have to treat each item on its own merit, and make an "informed" judgement.

Regards,
Peter.

#5 Paul Read

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 05:50 AM

Also note that the first, when new, was a better quality instrument than the second.

#6 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 09:09 PM

Also note that the first, when new, was a better quality instrument than the second.

Good point, Paul. On the second one, I had hastily looked at the word "rosewood" and the color of the wood in the photo and neglected to look closely at the fretwork...and I remember now that I looked at that same listing more closely a few days earlier and noticed this at that time.

#7 dwinterfield

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 04:56 AM

It seems the market has spoken. At the more than $2000 the unrepaired rosewood Lachenal ends topped the others. I was bidding because, while I have a fine hybrid to learn on, I want a good traditional concertina too. It's just a matter of waiting for the right deal to come along, I guess.

#8 PeterT

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 05:30 AM

It seems the market has spoken.

For the record, these concertinas achieved:

$2021/1063

$1625/855

637

I'll keep fingers crossed that you can pick up a suitable instrument at an attractive price.

Regards,
Peter.

#9 DavidFR

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 08:29 AM

It seems the market has spoken.

For the record, these concertinas achieved:

$2021/1063

$1625/855

637

I'll keep fingers crossed that you can pick up a suitable instrument at an attractive price.

Regards,
Peter.

This seems strange to me. Why would an unrestored rosewood ended 30-button go for almost $500 more than a mahogany ended 30-button in restored/playable condition? Are the rosewood Lachenals really that much better? Given the apparent market for 30-button instruments, $1625 for a 30-button C/G seems quite low. But maybe someone can fill me in.

#10 Chris Timson

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 10:13 AM

Why would an unrestored rosewood ended 30-button go for almost $500 more than a mahogany ended 30-button in restored/playable condition? Are the rosewood Lachenals really that much better?

Well, yes, I would say so, but then I'm a big fan of the Lachenal rosewood ended anglo. The workmanship in every respect I think is a lot nicer.

Chris

#11 Paul Read

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 10:47 AM

I'd agree with Chris. While you can often get very nice mahogany-ended instruments, the rosewood ones are a class above.

#12 squeezora

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 06:57 AM

I'd agree with Chris. While you can often get very nice mahogany-ended instruments, the rosewood ones are a class above.



But both 30 button instruments are "Rosewood"! How did one get to be "Mahogany"?

Edited by squeezora, 26 September 2006 - 06:58 AM.


#13 dwinterfield

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 07:17 AM

I'd agree with Chris. While you can often get very nice mahogany-ended instruments, the rosewood ones are a class above.



But both 30 button instruments are "Rosewood"! How did one get to be "Mahogany"?


I believe the restored $1625 instrument has mahogany ends. The listing said rsoewood, but that was incorrect.

#14 squeezora

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 07:35 AM

I'd agree with Chris. While you can often get very nice mahogany-ended instruments, the rosewood ones are a class above.



But both 30 button instruments are "Rosewood"! How did one get to be "Mahogany"?


I believe the restored $1625 instrument has mahogany ends. The listing said rsoewood, but that was incorrect.


If you go to the listing and look at the photos, in the enlarged versions, you will see Rosewood and not Mahogany. I assure you that I know the difference, I grew up around an Luthiers workshop and so I am very familiar with the differences. I do not argue with you for the sake of winning, but for the sake of those reading this thread who might be mislead by your claim. Many people do not know the difference, I will agree. Also, after studying the old price lists, I noticed that there is sometimes almost no difference in the price between concertinas in either wood so I have to wonder if there is always a big difference between a Mahogany ended concertina and a Rosewood ended one, though the cheapest ones were almost always Mahogany.

#15 DavidFR

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 08:00 AM

If you go to the listing and look at the photos, in the enlarged versions, you will see Rosewood and not Mahogany. I assure you that I know the difference, I grew up around an Luthiers workshop and so I am very familiar with the differences. I do not argue with you for the sake of winning, but for the sake of those reading this thread who might be mislead by your claim. Many people do not know the difference, I will agree. Also, after studying the old price lists, I noticed that there is sometimes almost no difference in the price between concertinas in either wood so I have to wonder if there is always a big difference between a Mahogany ended concertina and a Rosewood ended one, though the cheapest ones were almost always Mahogany.

Well I think we have an interesting question here - the fretwork pattern on the second 30-button is the prototypical mahogany-ended version. However, the wood does look significantly darker than the usual mahogany. Does anyone know if this fretwork was ever used on rosewood-ended instruments? Could this have been restained? I certainly don't hold the answers B) .

#16 Chris Timson

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 08:05 AM

Hmmm. Now I look at rthe picture I am a little confused. The fretwork is the coarse style and pattern usually associated with mahogany ended Lachenals, and which I have never seen on a Rosewood ended concertina. Which leaves two possibilities:-
  • The ends have been stained
  • I haven't seen every concertina there is to see.
Perhaps someone else could adjudicate on this.

Chris

#17 chris

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 09:15 AM

Hi
I have a rosewood ended Lachenal (english) and the rosewood is actually a veneer planted on a lighter, different grained wood running at right angle to the rosewood (probably mahogany). If you look at the edge of the 30 key described as 'antique-wood' it looks very much as I described my concertina end. If you look at the one now thought to be 'mahogany' this is not a veneer planted on a wood with different grain direction, but seems to be fairly thick and in one piece. Also if you look at the edge of the wood I would be suprised if rose wood that thick would have been used. Having purchased various exotic hardwoods from time to time I have found that mahogany is considerably cheaper than rosewood. Given the poorer quality of woodworking machinery in victorian times I think,whatever the price list seem to say, that rosewood would have been more expensive then as now. I also think that the lighting used for the photography is a bit misleading as it makes the 'mahogany' look darker in most of the pictures and makes the wood look the color of rosewood.
chris

#18 Paul Read

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 09:43 AM

For some reason the cheaper instrument may have rosewood ends. Rare but not impossible. It is, however, one of the cheaper models (only 5 folds, plain ends, coarse fretwork etc). Some of these cheaper ones can be nice players, however. I have a Wallis one that seems to have better quality reeds than usual (and dark ends come to think of it).

Edited by Paul Read, 26 September 2006 - 09:49 AM.





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