Morris tune tempo's ?

[TheFirstAdam]

Hello.

I'm new to this forum and indeed the Concertina. I've recently felt compelled to get one after hearing Andy Turner's playing. English syle Anglo sounds so thoughtfull and happy; plus being English and away from the land of my birth reminds me of home somehow. My squeze box doesn't sound much like his but i have been practicing hard, there's a video channel on YouTube "PorkpieMariner" that has been very helpfull for learning by ear too.

However the question i have is about tepo. My left to right hand co-ordination seems to be developing okay but after recording my pratice's (mobile phone) i've noticed a few timing issues. I'd like to know if there are "Corect" tempo's? An ebay bought metronome should be arriving any day soon and i wondered if anyone has avice about what speed to set it at?

I know there are some great players on this forum Peter Timming and Alan Day are just two i've listened to and admired through YouTube so if people here would be kind enough to

and

To watch my recent recordings and offer advice toward my improvemet, i will be very gratefull!

Thank's; Adam

Edited July 8, 2009 by TheFirstAdam

[Dave Rogers]

Morris gets danced at various tempos, according to the tastes of the individual sides, the fitness of the dancers (slower tempos need fitter dancers), and the degree of stage fright being experienced by the musician (the really nervous ones play too fast to dance to). There are loads of videos of various sides on YouTube, so I'd say watch a few and get a feel for the "average" tempo.

 

Generally, I think the tunes sound best when played with a lot of "oomph" at the sort of tempo that it's comfortable to sing "Tumpty-Tumpty-Tumpty-Tum" at (which are, of course, the opening notes of "Jockey to the Fair").

[JimLucas]

I'm new to this forum and indeed the Concertina. I've recently felt compelled to get one after hearing Andy Turner's playing. English syle Anglo sounds so thoughtfull and happy; plus being English and away from the land of my birth reminds me of home somehow. My squeze box doesn't sound much like his but i have been practicing hard...

 

...but after recording my pratice's (mobile phone) i've noticed a few timing issues.

Interesting that you should say that. In your two videos, I didn't notice anything that I would call "timing" issues. (I don't count the stop and restart on "Willow Tree".)

 

I'd like to know if there are "Corect" tempo's?

To expand on what Dave Rogers said, a "correct" tempo would be one that is comfortable for the particular set of dancers and assists them in their dancing. From team to team and depending on the dance, that could vary by a factor of two or more.

 

That said, I would say that your tempos on those two tunes would suit many a contemporary Morris side just fine.

 

My one "criticism" is that your playing is too "smooth". (And this on an anglo, not an English. ) Very nice for someone gliding across a dance floor, but Morris is best with a bit of "punch". Listen carefully to those players you gave as examples, and I think you should hear a difference. The emphasis I'm talking about comes from a quick but brief increase in the strength of your bellows work ("punch" in, or "jerk" outward, though not really as violent as those words suggest).

 

To get a feel for it, try playing a long single note (so you can play longer without having to change bellows direction), and "tap out" the rhythm by giving the bellows a little extra "oomph" on each beat, but relaxing (without going silent or reversing direction) between beats. Once you're comfortable with how that feels and sounds, add another level of subtlety by using more than one level of these "accents". E.g., alternating strong-medium-strong-medium, or even strong-light-medium-light. Then try to integrate that technique with your two-handed playing of an actual tune.

 

Given what you've accomplished so far, I don't think it will be long before one or more teams will want you to play for them. (Is there a local team where you live? If not, don't despair! I remember one team -- though this was some years back -- that promised to find a local job for a good musician who would relocate to their area. Or you could try starting a local team.)

[TomB-R]

I remember one team -- though this was some years back -- that promised to find a local job for a good musician who would relocate to their area.

 

There's a very strong side not so far from here and not only did they find an excellent musician and dancer a good job, they "found him" a lovely wife too!

[PeterT]

I know there are some great players on this forum Peter Timming and Alan Day are just two i've listened to and admired through YouTube so if people here would be kind enough to

and

To watch my recent recordings and offer advice toward my improvemet, i will be very gratefull!

Thanks for the kind words, Adam.

 

If you have literally only been playing for "a few weeks", then I think you can be termed a "natural" .

 

No more videos from myself, in the immediate future, until funds become available for a new computer!

 

Regards,

Peter.

 

PS - for anyone who had my e-mail address, I can no longer access this account , but am checking C.net, daily, for any messages.

[Jim Besser]

I know there are some great players on this forum Peter Timming and Alan Day are just two i've listened to and admired through YouTube so if people here would be kind enough to

and

To watch my recent recordings and offer advice toward my improvemet, i will be very gratefull!

Thank's; Adam

 

as others have said, tempo varies enormously. My side, which usually dances pretty fast, dances William and Nancy much slower than you're playing it (Bledington). Others dance it at something around your speed.

 

Also as others have said: get more punch into it, especially on the B part. Throw in a 7th chord in the last measure of the B part.

 

Watch dancers to get the feel for the tunes - live if you can, YouTube if you can't.

 

Listen to any John K recording.

 

If you've only been playing a short time, you're doing great.

[hjcjones]

That's really excellent playing for someone who's only been doing it for a few weeks. You're showing good co-ordination between right and left hands, good use of the air button, and a good sense of rhythm. I've heard musicians who've been playing a lot longer who'd struggle to do as well.

 

The "lift" in morris music is really quite subtle and you need to listen to it being played properly to get a feel for it - better still, learn to dance morris. You should listen to some recordings of good morris musicians - Andy Turner and John Kirkpatrick have already been mentioned, and there are of course the recordings of William Kimber.

 

Lionel Bacon's "Handbook of Morris Dances" (the Black Book), which is the bible for morris, gives tempos for some tunes, but by no means all. However, it does all come down to the style and preferences of individual sides. If you're just playing for listening, it doesn't matter too much (although most English tunes are better played slow rather than fast) but if you're playing for dancing it is essential that you work with them - the musician must follow the dancers as much as they follow the musician.

 

Finally I would respectfully disagree with Jim Besser's suggestion of a 7th chord. It is musically correct, but there is a body of opinion (which I share) that says 7th chords are out of place in British folk music. They seem to work fine in American tunes, but somehow sound cheesy in English ones.

[Jim Besser]

Finally I would respectfully disagree with Jim Besser's suggestion of a 7th chord. It is musically correct, but there is a body of opinion (which I share) that says 7th chords are out of place in British folk music. They seem to work fine in American tunes, but somehow sound cheesy in English ones.

 

I learned it from Big Nick Robertshaw - a consummate Morris musician (and a Brit) who was daring in his use of chords on that amazing Jeffries Duet of his. I agree that 7th chords can be overrused - but there are situations that just cry out for them (the B part, last phrase in Wm and Nancy, for instance, in my opinion).

 

My guess is that the reason they're frowned upon is that they give melodeon players fits. So much modern Morris music seems built around the limitations of the melodeon (but to be fair, I don't think Kimber used 7ths in his tunes).

 

Nick's view was that Morris music should, first, be functional and helpful for the dancers, but also be musically interesting and enjoyable for the audience. I agree, and have been trying to emulate his wonderful playing for a long time.

 

Just my 2 cents, not adjusted for inflation.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Jim Besser

[JimLucas]

Finally I would respectfully disagree with Jim Besser's suggestion of a 7th chord. It is musically correct, but there is a body of opinion (which I share) that says 7th chords are out of place in British folk music. They seem to work fine in American tunes, but somehow sound cheesy in English ones.

I learned it from Big Nick Robertshaw - a consummate Morris musician (and a Brit) who was daring in his use of chords on that amazing Jeffries Duet of his. I agree that 7th chords can be overrused - but there are situations that just cry out for them (the B part, last phrase in Wm and Nancy, for instance, in my opinion).

While not offering an opinion on that particular tune at the moment, philosophically I side with Jim.

 

Neither British nor American music is a single tradition, much less a "one size fits all" sort of thing. Rigid rules are the death of music.

[hjcjones]

and anyway how can you generalise like that,I agree for some British tunes its not appropriate,But for others it sounds ok ,[ imo] it depends on the melody and the inversion

 

Like any generalisation, it doesn't apply all the time, and it is of course also a matter of personal taste. Speaking for myself, I generally try to avoid 7th chords most of the time, and I know that a lot of others take a similar view. But if you think the 7th works, then by all means use it.