Thumb Strap On An Anglo Concertina?

[drbones]

I didn’t think these comments and questions belonged in the “Hand Straps on the English Concertina” string. I wouldn’t want to throw such a passionate debate off subject so I started this one.

I can’t comment on the merits of hand, thumb, wrist straps or any combination of the 3 on an English. I don’t own one. I’ve never played one. I have nothing against them. I’d love to try one to see what it’s like. So if that question started such a ruckus, why not ask about thumb straps on an Anglo. Sure you wouldn’t put a thumb strap on the air button side, (I don’t know if the side varies on any of them), but why not a thumb strap on the other side along with the hand strap? Seems to me that would give more control.

Since I acquired a 30-button box, I’ve started practicing more on the left side. I’ve discovered I can play the same tunes in a lower key or octave or whatever it is. Anyway, I seem to do OK with the right side, but the left side wants to rock back and forth across my palm pivoting on the bar the hand strap is attached to. If I tighten the strap, I can’t reach the bottom row of keys. A thumb strap might keep the pivoting down.

Also, Why not have a system for moving the bar and strap forward or back an inch or so at ¼ inch increments? (6.35 mm for you metric speakers) A simple set of machine screws and inset, threaded receivers would do the trick. Who set the standard anyway? Didn’t they know we don’t all have fingers the same length? I can reach the top row with no problem, but the bottom row makes my fingers curl back on themselves so I’m almost playing with my finger nails. If I could move the bar back, I feel it would help. However, I can’t because there are these fancy, curly air holes right behind it.

Is any of this worth considering or am I just an idiot? Come on, I can take it. Be nice.

[PeterT]

Since I acquired a 30-button box, I’ve started practicing more on the left side. I’ve discovered I can play the same tunes in a lower key or octave or whatever it is. Anyway, I seem to do OK with the right side, but the left side wants to rock back and forth across my palm pivoting on the bar the hand strap is attached to. If I tighten the strap, I can’t reach the bottom row of keys. A thumb strap might keep the pivoting down.

Also, Why not have a system for moving the bar and strap forward or back an inch or so at ¼ inch increments? (6.35 mm for you metric speakers) A simple set of machine screws and inset, threaded receivers would do the trick. Who set the standard anyway? Didn’t they know we don’t all have fingers the same length? I can reach the top row with no problem, but the bottom row makes my fingers curl back on themselves so I’m almost playing with my finger nails. If I could move the bar back, I feel it would help. However, I can’t because there are these fancy, curly air holes right behind it.

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I think we had a similar discussion in the "Ergonomics" forum some time back.

 

It sounds, to me, that you have your straps too tight. It does take a while to adjust to loose straps; how to arch the back of the hand into the strap, to create the "correct" tension, etc.

 

I don't have a video clip of the left hand,but here's how I do it on the right hand:

 

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4esXds_v6xk&...FBA&index=3

 

Good luck!

Peter.

[Bill N]

I Also, Why not have a system for moving the bar and strap forward or back an inch or so at ¼ inch increments? (6.35 mm for you metric speakers) A simple set of machine screws and inset, threaded receivers would do the trick. Who set the standard anyway? Didn’t they know we don’t all have fingers the same length? I can reach the top row with no problem, but the bottom row makes my fingers curl back on themselves so I’m almost playing with my finger nails. If I could move the bar back, I feel it would help. However, I can’t because there are these fancy, curly air holes right behind it.

Is any of this worth considering or am I just an idiot? Come on, I can take it. Be nice.

 

I think Wally Carroll is doing just that.

 

http://carrollconcertinas.com/23.html

 

 

I felt the same way when I got my Rochelle, but initially told myself that I was too new to the instrument to have an opinion on the matter. I thought to myself, surely the size and positioning of the bar is the result of years of players' experience and design refinement, and can't be improved upon. But then, just for fun, I made up a set of slightly taller bars (from the shafts of a set of cheap hardwood salad servers!) , and equipped them with slightly thicker straps. ( I kept the originals, which can easily be re-installed) Hey Presto- instantly easier and more comfortable to play with my biggish mitts!

 

My new Morse G/D should be arriving any day, and when it does, I think I'll use the 20 button G/D that it replaces as a guinea pig for an experiment like you suggest above. I might even rig up a thumb lever for the air button!

Edited October 17, 2008 by Bill N

[drbones]

It sounds, to me, that you have your straps too tight. It does take a while to adjust to loose straps; how to arch the back of the hand into the strap, to create the "correct" tension, etc.

 

I don't have a video clip of the left hand,but here's how I do it on the right hand:

 

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4esXds_v6xk&...FBA&index=3

 

Good luck!

Peter.

Thanks for the hint. I'll try loosening the straps for a while. It seemed to give less control the first time.

Unfortunately, at the moment, I'm on a computer that will not let me get to YouTube.

 

Please forgive me for the following questions.

I've looked at some of the pictures of different people playing and I can't tell if the heal of their hands are lying flat behind the bar against the body of the concertina. Should they be?

Also, should the front side of the bellows be kept together while the side facing you is rocked open and closed? Some pictures seem that way and some don't.

[drbones]

I think Wally Carroll is doing just that.

 

http://carrollconcertinas.com/23.html

Wow! that looks even better than what I thought of. Looks like you just loosen the screws and slide the bars where you want 'em. Maybe even turn them slightly to change their angle to the buttons.

Thanks for that, It makes me feel better about the idiot thing.

 

I felt the same way when I got my Rochelle, but initially told myself that I was too new to the instrument to have an opinion on the matter. I thought to myself, surely the size and positioning of the bar is the result of years of players' experience and design refinement, and can't be improved upon. But then, just for fun, I made up a set of slightly taller bars (from the shafts of a set of cheap hardwood salad servers!) , and equipped them with slightly thicker straps. ( I kept the originals, which can easily be re-installed) Hey Presto- instantly easier and more comfortable to play with my biggish mitts!

I think I have some bar-B-que tongs with teak handles. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

My new Morse G/D should be arriving any day, and when it does, I think I'll use the 20 button G/D that it replaces as a guinea pig for an experiment like you suggest above. I might even rig up a thumb lever for the air button!

I hope you'll let us know how that turns out. Thanks again!

[PeterT]

Please forgive me for the following questions.

I've looked at some of the pictures of different people playing and I can't tell if the heal of their hands are lying flat behind the bar against the body of the concertina. Should they be?

Also, should the front side of the bellows be kept together while the side facing you is rocked open and closed? Some pictures seem that way and some don't.

It seems to vary between players. I favour about a 1/4" gap, but it's all about the balance of the instrument (if standing), or how you anchor it (if seated). My contact point, on the hand rail, is the bone in the hand supporting the little finger (can't remember the biological name), which means that my hand is back against the strap with about 3/4" or 1" gap at the top.

 

I slightly fan my bellows (we had a big debate in another thread). I look at it this way; if you sit with your arms out in front (normal playing position), but without the concertina. Touch the tips of your fingers together, then move them about 10 or 12" apart, then bring them together again. This is a comfortable action, which says to me that the bellows have to follow a similar motion. Players who try to keep the bellows parallel are asking their body to carry out a motion which is not natural and, I believe, leads to some of the stresses which get talked about on this forum.

 

The important thing is to find a comfortable/natural position.

 

Regards,

Peter.

Edited October 17, 2008 by PeterT

[hjcjones]

This has been discussed a few times before.

 

The straps need to be tight enough so that you have control over the instrument, yet loose enough to allow you to reach all the buttons. I move my hands in the straps as I play, to reach different notes and chords. I maintain a firm grip on the instrument by clamping down on the strap as necessary with the lower joint of the thumb - these leaves the upper joint free to reach the air button or drone button.

 

I play supporting the right hand, so I'm less dependent on strap tension on this side to control the instrument, and I can leave the upper thumb joint free to use the air button. With the left hand, I'll often curl my thumb round to increase the tension, but it's free to move should I need to reach the drone button.

 

Would thumb straps help? Possibly, but I'd be concerned that they might restrict thumb movement, which you need for the air button (and drone if you've got one). I find the technique I've described works very well, with the added advantage that you can control the precise amount of tension by increasing or decreasing the thumb pressure.

[drbones]

Well, 3 responses, all logical yet all a bit different. Looks like, as with the "Hand straps on an English", it's going to boil down to what suits you best.

I appreciate all the comments/suggestions and welcome more.

[david_boveri]

I didn’t think these comments and questions belonged in the “Hand Straps on the English Concertina” string. I wouldn’t want to throw such a passionate debate off subject so I started this one.

I can’t comment on the merits of hand, thumb, wrist straps or any combination of the 3 on an English. I don’t own one. I’ve never played one. I have nothing against them. I’d love to try one to see what it’s like. So if that question started such a ruckus, why not ask about thumb straps on an Anglo. Sure you wouldn’t put a thumb strap on the air button side, (I don’t know if the side varies on any of them), but why not a thumb strap on the other side along with the hand strap? Seems to me that would give more control.

Since I acquired a 30-button box, I’ve started practicing more on the left side. I’ve discovered I can play the same tunes in a lower key or octave or whatever it is. Anyway, I seem to do OK with the right side, but the left side wants to rock back and forth across my palm pivoting on the bar the hand strap is attached to. If I tighten the strap, I can’t reach the bottom row of keys. A thumb strap might keep the pivoting down.

Also, Why not have a system for moving the bar and strap forward or back an inch or so at ¼ inch increments? (6.35 mm for you metric speakers) A simple set of machine screws and inset, threaded receivers would do the trick. Who set the standard anyway? Didn’t they know we don’t all have fingers the same length? I can reach the top row with no problem, but the bottom row makes my fingers curl back on themselves so I’m almost playing with my finger nails. If I could move the bar back, I feel it would help. However, I can’t because there are these fancy, curly air holes right behind it.

Is any of this worth considering or am I just an idiot? Come on, I can take it. Be nice.

 

wally carroll ( http://www.carrollconcertinas.com/ ) has moveable hand bars, as you say.

 

if you say you need to move the bar out, you should be able to reach the bottom keys with the straps very tight, because i am able to, and most concertinas do not feel cramped, but just right. i am a guy, but my hands are very small. i keep my straps very tight, so that when the concertina would hang from one hand, you can see only a sliver of light, through the cup of my palm--just tight enough so that my hands don't go numb when i play.

 

if you have such long fingers (that they get cramped on the inside row), there is no reason you cant reach the outside buttons. with tight straps, you should be able to pivot your hand inward (i.e. raising your wrist outward, away from the concertina), pushing the strap with it, and reach further out across the concertina. the hand bar should not be on the opposite side of your muscles, but as far down your hand (towards your wrist) as you can make it. if merely rocking out does not do it, try twisting your hand to the right, effectively increasing the reach of the pinky. when i play, i both pivot and twist to reach those buttons. loose hand straps (though many recommend them), simply make for bad bellows control, or worse, pinched nerves in the thumb (i've done both!).

 

and for what it's worth, i've worked on it, and i can play the anglo pretty well without handstraps at all. i have played a few miniatures (which usually dont have thumbstraps or handstraps), and so i figured if you can do it on a mini, why not a full sized? when i play a regular anglo without handstraps, i take my hands out of the straps, and put my thumbs on the side of the instrument (my concertina has the screw to adjust them on the sides, so i latch onto those to keep my grip), and control the air button with my first finger. of course, the anglo is much better played with handstraps (more bellows control and tonal control), but i personally think thumbstraps are unnecessary.

Edited October 18, 2008 by david_boveri

[david_boveri]

I didn’t think these comments and questions belonged in the “Hand Straps on the English Concertina” string. I wouldn’t want to throw such a passionate debate off subject so I started this one.

I can’t comment on the merits of hand, thumb, wrist straps or any combination of the 3 on an English. I don’t own one. I’ve never played one. I have nothing against them. I’d love to try one to see what it’s like. So if that question started such a ruckus, why not ask about thumb straps on an Anglo. Sure you wouldn’t put a thumb strap on the air button side, (I don’t know if the side varies on any of them), but why not a thumb strap on the other side along with the hand strap? Seems to me that would give more control.

Since I acquired a 30-button box, I’ve started practicing more on the left side. I’ve discovered I can play the same tunes in a lower key or octave or whatever it is. Anyway, I seem to do OK with the right side, but the left side wants to rock back and forth across my palm pivoting on the bar the hand strap is attached to. If I tighten the strap, I can’t reach the bottom row of keys. A thumb strap might keep the pivoting down.

Also, Why not have a system for moving the bar and strap forward or back an inch or so at ¼ inch increments? (6.35 mm for you metric speakers) A simple set of machine screws and inset, threaded receivers would do the trick. Who set the standard anyway? Didn’t they know we don’t all have fingers the same length? I can reach the top row with no problem, but the bottom row makes my fingers curl back on themselves so I’m almost playing with my finger nails. If I could move the bar back, I feel it would help. However, I can’t because there are these fancy, curly air holes right behind it.

Is any of this worth considering or am I just an idiot? Come on, I can take it. Be nice.

 

wally carroll ( http://www.carrollconcertinas.com/ ) has moveable hand bars, as you say.

 

if you say you need to move the bar out, you should be able to reach the bottom keys with the straps very tight, because i am able to, and most concertinas do not feel cramped, but just right. i am a guy, but my hands are very small. i keep my straps very tight, so that when the concertina would hang from one hand, you can see only a sliver of light, through the cup of my palm--just tight enough so that my hands don't go numb when i play.

 

if you have such long fingers (that they get cramped on the inside row), there is no reason you cant reach the third row (accidental row)buttons. with tight straps, you should be able to pivot your hand inward (i.e. raising your wrist outward, away from the concertina), pushing the strap with it, and reach further out across the concertina. the hand bar should not be on the opposite side of your muscles, but as far down your hand (towards your wrist) as you can make it. if merely rocking out does not do it, try twisting your hand to the right, effectively increasing the reach of the pinky. when i play, i both pivot and twist to reach those buttons. loose hand straps (though many recommend them), simply make for bad bellows control, or worse, pinched nerves in the thumb (i've done both!).

 

and for what it's worth, i've worked on it, and i can play the anglo pretty well without handstraps at all. i have played a few miniatures (which usually dont have thumbstraps or handstraps), and so i figured if you can do it on a mini, why not a full sized? when i play a regular anglo without handstraps, i take my hands out of the straps, and put my thumbs on the side of the instrument (my concertina has the screw to adjust them on the sides, so i latch onto those to keep my grip), and control the air button with my first finger. of course, the anglo is much better played with handstraps (more bellows control and tonal control), but i personally think thumbstraps are unnecessary.