Beginner Looking For An English (in England!)

[peelypost]

Hi! This is my first post, as I'm new to concertinas.

 

About me - piano player and singer for getting on for 20 years. I used to gig a lot in an Acid Jazz band but haven't done much musically for the past couple of years, but now wanting to get back into playing.

 

I'm wanting to start playing English Concertina (I want the chromatic!), basically because it is so portable and would go very nicely with piano and vocals.

 

I would be interested in....

 

• ...comments on a new Scarlatti 48 key Concertina; Hobgoblin tell me that it is a good beginner's instrument, and the build quality is much better now that it used to be. It is also affordable for me.
  
• ...advice on whether I need to worry about tuning.
  
• ...hearing from anyone who has an English for sale in UK.
  

 

 

I look forward to hearing from anyone able to help!

 

Cheers,

 

Neil (Loughborough, UK)

[Pete Dunk]

Here's a Jackie 30 button on ebay. It will knock spots off the Scarlatti and the last one sold on ebay a few weeks ago for less than £100. You'll be very disappointed with a Scarlatti, I wouldn't even grace it with the name 'instrument'.

 

The thirty button layout does give you limitations but you'll need a lot more wonga to get a playable 48 key.

 

Search around the forum for many other discussions regarding entry level instruments.

[KerryFrank]

Hi! This is my first post, as I'm new to concertinas.

 

About me - piano player and singer for getting on for 20 years. I used to gig a lot in an Acid Jazz band but haven't done much musically for the past couple of years, but now wanting to get back into playing.

 

I'm wanting to start playing English Concertina (I want the chromatic!), basically because it is so portable and would go very nicely with piano and vocals.

 

I would be interested in....

 

• ...comments on a new Scarlatti 48 key Concertina; Hobgoblin tell me that it is a good beginner's instrument, and the build quality is much better now that it used to be. It is also affordable for me.
  
• ...advice on whether I need to worry about tuning.
  
• ...hearing from anyone who has an English for sale in UK.
  

 

 

I look forward to hearing from anyone able to help!

 

Cheers,

 

Neil (Loughborough, UK)

 

Neil,

I did a quick search on eBayUK and found 3 quality English 48 buttons for auction. A 48b Lachenal. ( bid at 10.50GBP & 21GBP S&H-item #320188904678) A Crane & Sons 48b. ( bid at 300GBP & 15GBP S&H-item #290187209039) And lastly a 48b Wheatstone. (bid at 150GBP & 10.50GBP S&H-item #300178914592) All three have about 6 days to go with their respective auctions. Best of luck! KerryF

 

12-05-07

Neil,

Another English came up for bid. It's a metal ended, metal buttoned, Lachenal, located in London. The bid is at 31GBP (reserve not met) plus 10GBP for S&H and has 6 days left on the auction. It's a STUNNING Lachenal that comes with an equally beautiful wooden case. eBay item #120193289684. Again, best of luck, KerryF

Edited December 5, 2007 by KerryFrank

[Pete Dunk]

The 48 button Crane is a duet not English. Buying vintage concertinas on ebay is fraught with danger for the inexperienced. There are few real bargains to be had and many need a great deal of (expensive) work to make them playable.

[peelypost]

Thanks, chaps and chapesses. This is most helpful.

 

I have a question about the 30 key instrument, though - just to double check, will this be chromatic? It's just that when I spoke to a shop today, they told me that their 30 key was a G/D instrument, that that 'missing' notes were taken out from unusual keys.

 

Do both types of the 30 key English exist?

 

I am also quite hesitant regarding ebay for an antique which I need to work, and work well. Ebay is a bit hit-and-miss, I find, but I'll keep a look out for anything local, new, or anything which can be returned.

 

Thanks,

 

Neil.

[JimLucas]

I have a question about the 30 key instrument, though - just to double check, will this be chromatic? It's just that when I spoke to a shop today, they told me that their 30 key was a G/D instrument, that that 'missing' notes were taken out from unusual keys.

The 30-button G/D is an anglo, not an English. It's not fully chromatic, and each button has different notes on push and pull.

 

The 30-button Jackie is an English. It is fully chromatic, though lacking some of the duplicate accidentals found on a 48-button treble English (also on the 37-button Morse Albion English).

[peelypost]

The mist is clearing....

 

So, my current thinking is that a second-hand 30 key Jackie at circa £100 sounds like an excellent compromise.

 

I get the impression from your advice that a 30 key Jackie is superior to a 48 key Scarlatti. I can buy a new 30 key Jackie at £199.

 

I'm wondering whether essentially 2 octaves in whatever key will be limiting, but I think that even if I move on quite quickly, these instruments can be traded up though ebay or wherever.

 

I would still be pleased to hear any other views or tips,

 

Once again, thanks so much for your advice on this, and I'll let you know how I get on.

 

Cheers!

 

Neil.

[Leo]

..........

buy a new 30 key Jackie at £199.

 

................................., but I think that even if I move on quite quickly, these instruments can be traded up though ebay or wherever.

 

I would still be pleased to hear any other views or tips,

 

..............................

Cheers!

 

Neil.

Hi Neil

 

An advantage from the manufacturer (Concertina Connection), and others is that if you buy a Jack/Jackie new is that if you elect to "Trade up" , they will allow full purchase price toward a new concertina. The Button Box offers this also as a dealer on their webpage, but I can't speak for them or others. Worth a thought.

 

I do have a Morse Albion 37 button English that I'm very happy with, and don't find the lack of buttons limiting at all.

 

Thanks

Leo

Edited December 4, 2007 by Leo

[Dirge]

OK Neil; you sound a prime candidate to spend some serious money and try a duet. You've obviously got ambition beyond straight melody and the odd chord; you have musical experience in spades, you don't sound particularly folk oriented. Duet is the one that allows you to come nearest to having a piano's range and versatility while still fitting in your hand luggage.

 

They are expensive (You might tie up £1500 or more quite easily) and you HAVE to buy an antique, but that shouldn't frighten you as long as you are careful, any more than buying say, an old violin, should. You would eventually get your money back if you failed to take to it. (It's a very small market so deals take time)

[peelypost]

I just looked up Concertina Connection and they have some MP3s of their two Jack/Jackie models. I like the tone, and I like the price (actually, less than my budget), and I like the fact that they should give me a bit of reliability in the short term, being a new instrument.

 

Let's wait and see how things go before spending serious cash, which I would be very happy to do if I feel I need to.

 

I'm watching the s/h one on ebay - if that goes, I'll get a new one, I think.

[chris]

Hi Neil

there are a number of 'english' players in and around Leics. If you need help or advice (close up) try contacting us. You can email me thru this site or at swanfolk<at>talktalk.net

chris

[peelypost]

Thank's Chris - I'll be in touch off-forum.

 

It's great to hear of things going on in the locality.

[chris]

hope you received my answer

chris

[jon melville]

I have found that if anything 30 buttons leaves some spare for trad. folk music in G and D, with forays into F, C and A. However, where I've found I need the full chromatic set is for rags and swing numbers. As a jazz pianist, you may find yourself limited by fewer than 48 buttons (I've not explored the 37-button layout, so that may be adequate).

 

In addition, as a musician, you are likely to progress faster than most beginners and may find the limitations of the cheaper boxes in terms of speed of playing and response hinders your development earlier than some.

 

If you are relatively central I am not far south and west of the Leicestershire mafia, should you be seeking further advice - feel free to PM me.

 

Also I would recommend a visit to Chris Algar of Barleycorn Concertinas, Stoke-on-Trent area. Massive collection, although probably all above your price range, but an opportunity to see and discuss and play what is available and what the limitations, pros and cons might be with an expert.

Edited December 4, 2007 by jon melville

[peelypost]

Doh! - I was only in the Potteries a week ago and won't get a chance to go back there for a while. Barleycorn sound great and well worth a visit some time.

 

In terms of range, losing the top octave should be manageable - I'm a novice after all! To be honest, I will feel quite pleased with myself if I outgrow the instrument, so long as it is for good reason. Then I should be able to make a good case to my financial advisor for a serious upgrade!

 

(Potteries = Stoke on Trent, in case you are from further afield!)

[asdormire]

(Potteries = Stoke on Trent, in case you are from further afield!)

 

Even I knew that, and I am a savage in the Americas!

 

Alan

[wntrmute]

BE VERY CAREFUL on Ebay. There are things that look like Jack/Jackie/Rochelle concertinas that ain't. You can sometimes tell if you look very carefully at the straps, buttons, and/or where the nameplate should be. The Concertina Connection website lists authorized dealers, and you can also buy direct from them. I would not trust alternative sources. The knock-offs are of a dubious quality at best (my first concertina, which I learned to hate, was apparently a counterfeit Hohner from an Ebay vendor and it is an unplayable piece of junk).