Beginer Advice Or Whar Are "bad Habits"?

[lmc]

I am going from playing a piano accordion to a 30 anglo Marcus. I am using the Bert Levy CD and book and would like to attend the Noel Hill school next year when it comes to USA east coast area. Most difficult for me has been transitioning from reading music for the piano keyboard layout vs. the little in/out buttons, but I am working on it. At this point, I keep cheating with the tablature but am hopeful. Has anyone else found this difficult? Also, while I am "self-teaching" I know that on Noel's website it refers to "bad habits" that self taught beginers must unlearn...any ideas what those might be so that I can try to avoid them. Has anyone done the Noel Hill school who was truly a beginer? And what was their experience like?

 

And lastly, I have seen many different ways of holding the concertina. The Levy book says wooden ends on each knee, a teacher I consulted said to put right wooden end on left knee and only use left hand to move bellows, someone else I saw playing with the right wooden end on right knee, another was straddling the bellows (a no no?) and another was just using the right hand to move bellows...Or is it just a matter of personal preference??

 

Thanks for any info you can share. What a great source of inofrmation this website is.

 

leonor

[PeterT]

And lastly, I have seen many different ways of holding the concertina. The Levy book says wooden ends on each knee, a teacher I consulted said to put right wooden end on left knee and only use left hand to move bellows, someone else I saw playing with the right wooden end on right knee, another was straddling the bellows (a no no?) and another was just using the right hand to move bellows...Or is it just a matter of personal preference??

Hi Leonor,

 

The Anglo concertina is a strange beast; a different thing to different people.

 

Bertram Levy, when he played Anglo, was viewed as a top exponent of the instrument. I must have seen him playing, seated, two or three times, but don't remember how he held the instrument. I have an image (probably a photo that I took), of him standing, eyes closed, totally immersed in his performance. I actually don't agree with this suggestion to rest both ends of the instrument, although I've seen many photos of people who do this. To me, this is limiting the bellows control and dynamics on the instrument.

 

To me, the keys points are comfort and practicality. It's not a hard and fast "rule", but English "style" players generally rest the right end on right leg/knee, and Irish "style" players the left end on left leg/knee. Choice should, generally, be dictated by whichever hand is doing the more complex fingering.

 

I know, also, that some players have the bellows over the leg. To me, this would increase wear and tear on the bellows, and encourage the player to use "more bellows than is necessary". I favour not over-extending the bellows, which makes faster playing (when needed) easier.

 

Regards,

Peter.

[Don]

Also, while I am "self-teaching" I know that on Noel's website it refers to "bad habits" that self taught beginers must unlearn...any ideas what those might be so that I can try to avoid them. Has anyone done the Noel Hill school who was truly a beginer? And what was their experience like?

 

Leonor,

 

I attended Noel's east coast school earlier this month as a beginner. I had about five weeks of experience before the school and had used Levy's book as a learning tool. I picked up some "bad habits" from that book and they all related to fingering. Noel has very specific (and very logical) ideas about fingering. I broke my "bad habits" during the week of school without too much difficulty but suspect if I had had five months instead of five weeks of Levy fingering before Noel, it might be a different story.

 

My experience at the school as a beginner was fantastic. He is a great and patient teacher and I am now confident that I have started on the right foot (or finger). There are some very advanced players at the school but we had 8 or 9 beginners in our class and, as a group, we received separate attention and lessons from Noel. I highly recommend the experience.

 

Regards,

Don

[Richard Morse]

... I am going from playing a piano accordion to a 30 anglo Marcus. I am using the Bert Levy CD and book and would like to attend the Noel Hill school next year when it comes to USA east coast area.

Another good venue in which to learn concertina in at the Northeast Squeeze-In in Massachusetts which is now only 3 weeks away! There are always a good crowd of ITM players of which several have been to Noel's courses. I think it'd be good to get some input sooner rather than later!

 

-- Rich --

[lmc]

I

Also, while I am "self-teaching" I know that on Noel's website it refers to "bad habits" that self taught beginers must unlearn...any ideas what those might be so that I can try to avoid them. Has anyone done the Noel Hill school who was truly a beginer? And what was their experience like?

 

Leonor,

 

I attended Noel's east coast school earlier this month as a beginner. I had about five weeks of experience before the school and had used Levy's book as a learning tool. I picked up some "bad habits" from that book and they all related to fingering. Noel has very specific (and very logical) ideas about fingering. I broke my "bad habits" during the week of school without too much difficulty but suspect if I had had five months instead of five weeks of Levy fingering before Noel, it might be a different story.

 

My experience at the school as a beginner was fantastic. He is a great and patient teacher and I am now confident that I have started on the right foot (or finger). There are some very advanced players at the school but we had 8 or 9 beginners in our class and, as a group, we received separate attention and lessons from Noel. I highly recommend the experience.

 

Regards,

Don

 

Well...that certainly would be more difficult to break a bad habit from 5 weeks to maybe a year! How are they different? Is there any place I can see or check on the web his fingering? I definately want to take the workshop but my best bet is next year...I wonder what I can do to prepare (and not pick up more bad habits) in the interim. I was enjoying the Levy book but would hate to get fixed on a less than logical fingering pattern.

[lmc]

... I am going from playing a piano accordion to a 30 anglo Marcus. I am using the Bert Levy CD and book and would like to attend the Noel Hill school next year when it comes to USA east coast area.

Another good venue in which to learn concertina in at the Northeast Squeeze-In in Massachusetts which is now only 3 weeks away! There are always a good crowd of ITM players of which several have been to Noel's courses. I think it'd be good to get some input sooner rather than later!

 

-- Rich --

 

Rich, what are ITM players? Unfortunately, that weekend is not possible for me but I am still very interested in the venue...I will check the website. It is very difficult to find concertina instruction and it sounds like there are many different styles.

[lmc]

And lastly, I have seen many different ways of holding the concertina. The Levy book says wooden ends on each knee, a teacher I consulted said to put right wooden end on left knee and only use left hand to move bellows, someone else I saw playing with the right wooden end on right knee, another was straddling the bellows (a no no?) and another was just using the right hand to move bellows...Or is it just a matter of personal preference??

Hi Leonor,

 

The Anglo concertina is a strange beast; a different thing to different people.

 

Bertram Levy, when he played Anglo, was viewed as a top exponent of the instrument. I must have seen him playing, seated, two or three times, but don't remember how he held the instrument. I have an image (probably a photo that I took), of him standing, eyes closed, totally immersed in his performance. I actually don't agree with this suggestion to rest both ends of the instrument, although I've seen many photos of people who do this. To me, this is limiting the bellows control and dynamics on the instrument.

 

To me, the keys points are comfort and practicality. It's not a hard and fast "rule", but English "style" players generally rest the right end on right leg/knee, and Irish "style" players the left end on left leg/knee. Choice should, generally, be dictated by whichever hand is doing the more complex fingering.

 

I know, also, that some players have the bellows over the leg. To me, this would increase wear and tear on the bellows, and encourage the player to use "more bellows than is necessary". I favour not over-extending the bellows, which makes faster playing (when needed) easier.

 

Regards,

Peter.

 

I agree that the bellows over the leg is the least desirable way to play. I am trying the left and the right approach...

[Richard Morse]

Rich, what are ITM players?

Irish Traditional Music players. Like Noel Hill. From your posts it sounded like this was the type of thing you're most interested in though also mentioning Bertram is at odds with this as he doesn't play that style.

Unfortunately, that weekend is not possible for me but I am still very interested in the venue...I will check the website. It is very difficult to find concertina instruction and it sounds like there are many different styles.

Yes, there are many styles at NESI with ITM being and English (on anglo, such as Morris, pub and sea songs) being the major anglo styles. Plus there's Englishes and duets of course (and button, piano, and chromatic accordions...). Check through the reviews of previous years events to see what sorts of workshops happened to give you and idea of what goes on.

 

Also - we have a yearly Northeast Concertina Workshop in April with about 20 workshops which span many styles. Usually we have two ITM anglo instructors, an English style anglo, a couple of English English (and classical, ensemble, Northumbrian, Scottish, whatever), a duet instructor, plus instructors that focus on more generic things like playing in bands, composition, tune theory, etc.

 

It sounds like you're in striking distance of Massachusetts? Not that distance has stopped many from coming as we get attendees come from all parts of the US, Canada, and the even the UK!

 

-- Rich --

[stevejay]

 

Well...that certainly would be more difficult to break a bad habit from 5 weeks to maybe a year! How are they different? Is there any place I can see or check on the web his fingering? I definately want to take the workshop but my best bet is next year...I wonder what I can do to prepare (and not pick up more bad habits) in the interim. I was enjoying the Levy book but would hate to get fixed on a less than logical fingering pattern.

 

I think that having different approaches to fingering is an asset. Each navigation will give you different phrasing, and in the end your sound will be more lively. After a while you just know when to play across the rows for "punch" or cross rows for fluidity imo. Don't worry about it too much, and find your own ways as well, whatever feels right. It's a folk instrument after all, nobody is going to slap your hand with a ruler

[spindizzy]

Rich, what are ITM players?

 

Irish Trad Music

[Dieppe]

Rich, what are ITM players?

 

Irish Trad Music

 

 

Ah, that's much better than the TMI players! They often tell you FAR too much..

[Dieppe]

I am going from playing a piano accordion to a 30 anglo Marcus.

 

I'm a PA player myself who's transitioned to the concertina. My only advice: If you find playing the Anglo difficult, or can't quite get your brain, fingers and hands wrapped around the bellows work.. try an English. You will have less worrying about bellows direction (much like most PAs) and can get down to learning key layout.

 

 

YMMV though, and others may say differently. I just know that once I switched it became a lot easier for me. Of course if you play a "different note on push and pull" accordion, then you'd be okay. That's just my only tidbit of advice. Unless you have a specific goal for playing a particular layout, start with an instrument that has the same bellows/note action that you're most used to.

 

Good luck!!!

[Dieppe]

I am going from playing a piano accordion to a 30 anglo Marcus.

 

I'm a PA player myself who's transitioned to the concertina. My only advice: If you find playing the Anglo difficult, or can't quite get your brain, fingers and hands wrapped around the bellows work.. try an English. You will have less worrying about bellows direction (much like most PAs) and can get down to learning key layout.

 

 

YMMV though, and others may say differently. I just know that once I switched it became a lot easier for me. Of course if you play a "different note on push and pull" accordion, then you'd be okay. That's just my only tidbit of advice. Unless you have a specific goal for playing a particular layout, start with an instrument that has the same bellows/note action that you're most used to.

 

Good luck!!!

 

ETA: Argh, how can I delete this extra post?

Edited September 4, 2007 by Dieppe

[lmc]

I am going from playing a piano accordion to a 30 anglo Marcus.

 

I'm a PA player myself who's transitioned to the concertina. My only advice: If you find playing the Anglo difficult, or can't quite get your brain, fingers and hands wrapped around the bellows work.. try an English. You will have less worrying about bellows direction (much like most PAs) and can get down to learning key layout.

 

 

YMMV though, and others may say differently. I just know that once I switched it became a lot easier for me. Of course if you play a "different note on push and pull" accordion, then you'd be okay. That's just my only tidbit of advice. Unless you have a specific goal for playing a particular layout, start with an instrument that has the same bellows/note action that you're most used to.

 

Good luck!!!

 

ETA: Argh, how can I delete this extra post?

 

thanks for the advice. I actually transitioned from piano accordion to anglo concertina a couple of years ago, because I found it fun and easier to play "by ear", the push/pull somehow gives you a better sense of physical memory but...I found it extremely difficult to read music with the anglo. I am also trying the English and have found that it is much easier to read musical notation because the layout of the keyboard is very similar to the left hand layout of the piano accordion keyboard. However. I am interested in both and hope that I can continue to switch between instruments. I like both. And I also have a 2 row button diatonic melodeon/accordion that is "fun to play by ear". What I am discovering about the English Concertina is how taxing the pinkie position is...but I'm sure I'll get used to it.

 

In terms of bad habits with the Anglo, I hope to shed a few after my first lesson with Dana Johnson of Kensington Concertinas tomorrow. I am really lookiong forward to this!