From Angle To English Newbie Question And Commentary.

[seanc]

Hi All,

I am a newbie with a question. A couple of months ago, after doing quite a bit of reseach (much of it on here, I might add) I bought my first concertina. Based on what I had read and thought at the time I opted for an anglo and specifically a Rochelle.

 

I have been playing practicing and following the method tutor provided with the Rochelle. So far it has gone fairly well. I have made progress and am really enjoying it. The quality of the concertina seems to be very nice. Fit, finish and construction, while spartan is more than enough to suit my needs at this point.

 

The comment that I would like to inject here is that while looking and trying to make a decsion on what to buy, the consistant message was to buy the betstest- most expensive- state of the art etc, etc ... While, that would be optimal and ideal in a perfect situation I think that in many (most) cases it really is not realistic. While I very much wanted to try out the concertina money was a definite consideration as well as the question as to if I would take to instrument and stick with it. For these reasons the $300 entry point was managable and low enough so that if it did not work out I was not put into financial hardship.

 

The question is while I like the Anglo and progress is being made. I am thinking that the English may be a better fit for me long term. That leads to the question of Which one and how many buttons??

From what I have gathered so far, it would seem that 30 is the reccomended starting point??

recommendations of tenor vs treble? ( I will mostly be playinhg alone)

Stagi vs Jackie vs anything else??

Any feed back on Jim Laabs music? There is an a48 there for $568..

http://www.jimlaabsmusic.com/scripts/prodV...p?idproduct=143

 

 

Thanks in advance all!!!

[Trilby]

I would be interested to peoples replies also. I have had an English 48 key Gremlin for a year and have seldom strayed near the very high notes. I haven't seen them used in many tunes at all and have often wondered if I should have gone for a tenor which would have been more useful for chords ( i would have thought).

I know it is horses for courses but as a general rule, what do people think?

[yankeeclipper]

As Trilby says, the high notes seem to be seldom used. I have a Wheatstone 48 key treble, and wish it were a tenor... But you go with what you've got.

[Trilby]

Glad it isn't just me being odd! With my vocal pitch even middle c is a bit "top end" !!!

[Larry Stout]

I started on Stagi EC, moved to Wheatstones after about a year. The Stagi is harder to play, but it did get me started before I got into buying (and having restored) vintage instruments. I have both trebles (which are my main instruments) and a baritone, which I quite like. If I were to buy another it would be a tenor-treble. An advantage of a tenor treble is that it has the range for guitar music. The treble matches the violin.

 

I've been working on the Scott Skinner tune "The Mathematician" (partially because I am one) which uses the full range of the treble. Most of the time I don't get above the third "d" above middle C.

[seanc]

So then, It seems that the opinion, thus far, is to push a tenor?

As for Stagi vs anything else?

48 buttons? Are those mini ones useful/ usable ( I think theu had 18 buttons)?

 

Also, Jim Laabs, any feedback?

[davidcorner]

I have had an English 48 key Gremlin for a year and have seldom strayed near the very high notes. I haven't seen them used in many tunes at all and have often wondered if I should have gone for a tenor which would have been more useful for chords.

The original range of the English concertina was designed to match the violin.

Very few folk tunes require the fiddler to move the left hand above the normal position (first position), and only in higher positions will you reach the notes in the top octave of the 48 key English.

Since only expert violin players venture up into the higher positions, the upper octave is only really useful for classical music.

Wheatstone made an extended treble with a further fifth above the standard 48 key range, but that's only for very expert classical music!

A few of Scott Skinner's "show off" tunes, such as the hornpipe "The Mathematician", do venture up into these regions, and only with such tunes do I need that top octave.

 

I have a tenor-treble, which is extended a fifth below the standard 48 key instrument (down to the C below middle C), and I find the extra notes useful in adding to a chord.

If you are intending to use the instrument for song accompaniment, you would find the extra notes lower down more useful that that octave at the top.

[JimLucas]

The comment that I would like to inject here is that while looking and trying to make a decsion on what to buy, the consistant message was to buy the betstest- most expensive- state of the art etc, etc ...

I don't think so. The consistent message I've seen is to buy the best instrument that you can afford. It appears that in buying the Rochelle, you did just that. Even if you could have raised the cash for a better one, it seems that you weren't able to justify the extra expense to yourself, so in your own mind you couldn't "afford" it. Yes?

 

I am thinking that the English may be a better fit for me long term. ... From what I have gathered so far, it would seem that 30 is the reccomended starting point??

I think that most people would find the 30-button Jackie or Jack to be minimal. The lack of duplicate accidentals shouldn't be a problem until you've gotten used to them on another instrument, though then it might be difficult to go back to doing without them. You might find yourself occasionally reaching for notes higher -- not necessarily a lot higher -- than those provided. There are threads here on C.net about different ways of dealing with that, but you would have to decide for yourself whether you could live with the limitation.

 

recommendations of tenor vs treble? ( I will mostly be playing alone)

Playing what? Tunes? Songs? Tune arrangements (i.e., more than just the melody)?

 

So then, It seems that the opinion, thus far, is to push a tenor?

"Thus far" being a little over 3 hours! Seems to me you're pretty impatient. Give the rest of us some time to log in, consider your request, and respond. Could be that the "treble" fans inhabit a different time zone.

 

In fact, though I own tenor-treble and baritone-treble instruments, the 48-button treble is still the one I use most for solo playing, including song accompaniment. I sing either tenor or baritone. I also do make use of the highest notes on the treble, though admittedly not as much as the lower range. Louis Killen does some nice song accompaniments which make heavy use of the second octave, rather than the lowest one.

 

While I do sometimes like using the notes in the tenor and baritone ranges, I try to be selective about it. E.g., I sing "Fiddler's Green" in F, and for years I accompanied it it on a treble that didn't have a low F. My current "main squeeze" does have that low F (replacing the low Ab, while I still have the G#), so I've tried using it, e.g., to provide a bottom to the final chord. To my surprise, it struck me as "heavy", rather than "grounded" or "strong". I do use it in that song, but even under the last note of the chorus I don't use it on every verse. I use it to provide variety, not to make things sound "complete".

 

Are those mini ones useful/ usable ( I think they had 18 buttons)?

Some people might find them so (search here on C.net for Henrik Müller's comments), but I think most folks would be frustrated by their limited range, especially for song accompaniment. Then there's the issue of inconsistent quality. (Again, the C.net Search facility should provide you with various comments.)

 

Also, Jim Laabs, any feedback?

Searching for "Jim Laabs" here on C.net turns up five different Topics. I suggest you check them out. And if you do a similar search on Google, I think you'll also find some interesting results.

 

The original range of the English concertina was designed to match the violin.

Actually, no.

While the 48-button treble has been the default standard for English concertinas for well over 100 years, the earliest ones (e.g., see Stephen Chambers avatar) had fewer notes and a range that more closely matched the flute, though I don't know that there's any evidence that Wheatstone originally "designed" the concertina to consciously copy the range of any particular other instrument.

[Charles_Mackay]

Hi,

 

I started out with a 20 key anglo, moved to 30 key (both Stagi) and then moved to a 48 key Wheatstone English treble. If you are needing to be a little careful with cost, a vintage Lachenal may be a bit less expensive than a Wheatstone. The one piece of advice I would suggest is that you buy from a reputable music shop or concertina dealer, preferably one you can visit.

 

The advantage of the EC over the Anglo is that you are not limited by key signatures and if you are also thinking or chord accompaniment to songs, all manner of chords, major, minor diminished etc are possible on the EC, but not necessarily on the Anglo.

 

Good luck,

 

Charles Mackay