Choosing A Concertina

[devinomatic]

Hi everyone! This is my first post, and I'm extremely excited about picking up concertina. I have years of guitar, and plenty of hours of piano accordion under my belt, but have found myself craving something less overpowering and bulky.

 

I'm a few days away from ordering my first box. I've spent a good two weeks researching my purchase, and fighting a battle in my head as to whether I should choose Anglo or English, as I don't have any nearby to try out first. Luckily, my research here has pointed me to the Jacks and Rochelle.

 

Firstly, I intend to focus less on traditional solo music, and more on writing my own, in a sort of folk/garage rock-influenced upbeat pub rock style. I'll be singing, and playing with an acoustic bass player and snare player. Possibly guitar later on.

 

I'll be using the box I choose for vocal accompaniment, very rhythmic/bouncy guitar-strum like chording, and some melodic passages. However, it seems that the bulk of the bouncy quick tempo concertina music I've heard has been on an anglo, while the english comes off as more smooth and refined. In my mind, I can see myself trying to do the quick push pull rhythmic stuff on an english, and wearing out my thumbs in a few minutes.

 

However, because I'll be playing with various other musicians, I'd like to have the flexibility that the chromatic english system lends. I also like the idea of being able to pick up a Jack, because its lower range seems that it would work well with my vocal range.

 

I'm 90% decided that I want the Jack, but before commit sight unseen, I just wanted to know if any of you have advice and can offer concerns that I've overlooked. Is the english system suitable for quick tempo rhythmic chording (primarily major, minor, and 5ths/power chording), or will I pull off my thumbs after half an hour? Would a 30 button rochelle make more sense in my situation, and not be nearly as limiting as I fear? Are there any players or recordings you recommend that are similar to what I describe?

 

I do need to say, this forum has proven to be a wealth of information, and I appreciate all members contributions, as they've helped me come a long way from two weeks ago where I was going to just pick up the $150 hohner that my local music shop was trying to get rid of. Thanks everyone, especially if you read this whole post!

[chris]

welcome to obsession land. seriously tho, as an english player I would tend to err on the side of english for flexibility, however there are players who play both. Keith Kendrick for one and I'm sure there are others. There are people who play fine song accompaniments on anglo's. Personally having read your post I would buy an english first- but would very seriously save for an anglo later. Best of both worlds. They are not mutually exclusive. I have to say at this point that I tend to collect instruments so thinking in terms of multiple choices is the way I work.

With regard to the 'pulling off thumbs' concern it is possible to fit straps on an english that would take some of the weight/strain out of the playing ( more often seen on baritones but no reason that they couldn't be fitted to a treble as far as I know)

best of luck, whichever route you choose

chris

[devinomatic]

welcome to obsession land. seriously tho, as an english player I would tend to err on the side of english for flexibility, however there are players who play both. Keith Kendrick for one and I'm sure there are others. There are people who play fine song accompaniments on anglo's. Personally having read your post I would buy an english first- but would very seriously save for an anglo later. Best of both worlds. They are not mutually exclusive. I have to say at this point that I tend to collect instruments so thinking in terms of multiple choices is the way I work.

With regard to the 'pulling off thumbs' concern it is possible to fit straps on an english that would take some of the weight/strain out of the playing ( more often seen on baritones but no reason that they couldn't be fitted to a treble as far as I know)

best of luck, whichever route you choose

chris

 

Thanks for your well-rounded response. I've seen a few videos of Keith Kendrick's anglo playing, and it's splendid. This

in particular is similar to the tempo/personality of the playing I'd like to take up, only on an english if it's possible. (I've heard melody and harmony in unison is a pretty hefty task on the english system)

 

I have seen the wrist straps on a few english concertinas, and didn't realize that it's something that can be retrofitted. I'll definitely look into it if I go this route. Are these straps readily available/relatively easy to install?

 

I could see having a baritone and an anglo both someday, as both ranges could prove useful for keeping a set interesting once we progress to performing beyond busking, which is our first goal and easily accessible here in Chicago.

[Paul Read]

[

Thanks for your well-rounded response. I've seen a few videos of Keith Kendrick's anglo playing, and it's splendid. This

in particular is similar to the tempo/personality of the playing I'd like to take up, only on an english if it's possible. (I've heard melody and harmony in unison is a pretty hefty task on the english system)

 

If you can, try to get hold of an Ian Robb recording. That is a great example of up-tempo English playing.

[m3838]

I have a Jack and recently bought second hand Jackie.

Lower chords are not only slow, but don't sound good. I have to omit lower chords in more than one piece, and play single notes instead. The good thing is that these low notes are so solid, they don't need chords.

My Jack is more quiet than Jackie, I guess low notes don't carry as well, so if you are going to play with others, you may consider Trebble instead of Baritone, esp. with bass player.

I generally don't like high pitched single reeds, and when I played my "new" Jackie, I didn't like it and decided it's not for me. But when I recorded myself, I had a mind boggling surprize: high reeds appeared to be louder and more full bodied, than I assumed from hearing me playing.

With Baritone Jack I had to fight the "sea Lion" effect of low reeds, which forced me to play with dynamics. The Jackie is more forgiving, but the very high chords do sound tinny. For this reason I think, most English Concertina music is written in first octave. Playing it on Baritone is too low.

The Anglo is a bit more robust, but only in it's home keys. In other keys you'll be playing it in English Concertina style - alternating between sides, smoothly.

If you are not in English or Irish or any other particular tradition, favoring certain keys - go with the English.

[Dirge]

I suppose you have considered a duet? Pricey, difficult to master but as its name suggests well suited to playing a 'full' tune? That's what I went for after years of accordian and I'm sold. It's the ultimate 'one man band' concertina

 

Trying the duet route needs a willingness to treat the instrument as an investment that can be cashed in if you don't get on with it. Unfortunately the money I've tied up in my 'boxes is now lost forever...I'm keeping them!

[m3838]

I suppose you have considered a duet? Pricey, difficult to master but as its name suggests well suited to playing a 'full' tune? That's what I went for after years of accordian and I'm sold. It's the ultimate 'one man band' concertina

 

Trying the duet route needs a willingness to treat the instrument as an investment that can be cashed in if you don't get on with it. Unfortunately the money I've tied up in my 'boxes is now lost forever...I'm keeping them!

 

I tried duets (McCann, Crane, Hayden), found Crane most to my liking, but also realised it better to be treated like a piano: with rigorous (more or less) study etc. Lack of time viered me off this manly instrument and ultimately brought to a dork's refuge - the peculiar English Concertina. It's so dorky, it'll be very good for a sweaty rock band.

I tried my best to hold onto more musculine contraptions: Bayan, Buttonbox, Anglo - nope. Birds of a feather stick together. But now, that I'm out of closet, Life turned it's lighter shaded faucets to me. I even formed a hockey team, called "The Isuckers", but that's entirely off topic.

P.S.

May be you can help me with better name, huh?

We rollerblade, so the Isuckers may not be that good, How about "The Usuckers", or Ussuckers, or Assuckers, or "Bellysharks"?

thanks.

[david_boveri]

welcome to obsession land. seriously tho, as an english player I would tend to err on the side of english for flexibility, however there are players who play both. Keith Kendrick for one and I'm sure there are others. There are people who play fine song accompaniments on anglo's. Personally having read your post I would buy an english first- but would very seriously save for an anglo later. Best of both worlds. They are not mutually exclusive. I have to say at this point that I tend to collect instruments so thinking in terms of multiple choices is the way I work.

With regard to the 'pulling off thumbs' concern it is possible to fit straps on an english that would take some of the weight/strain out of the playing ( more often seen on baritones but no reason that they couldn't be fitted to a treble as far as I know)

best of luck, whichever route you choose

chris

 

Thanks for your well-rounded response. I've seen a few videos of Keith Kendrick's anglo playing, and it's splendid. This

in particular is similar to the tempo/personality of the playing I'd like to take up, only on an english if it's possible. (I've heard melody and harmony in unison is a pretty hefty task on the english system)

 

I have seen the wrist straps on a few english concertinas, and didn't realize that it's something that can be retrofitted. I'll definitely look into it if I go this route. Are these straps readily available/relatively easy to install?

 

I could see having a baritone and an anglo both someday, as both ranges could prove useful for keeping a set interesting once we progress to performing beyond busking, which is our first goal and easily accessible here in Chicago.

 

i dont know any english players in chicago (though there must be some), but if you wanted to try out an anglo to see if you like it, then maybe i could let you try out mine. if you feel it doesnt fit your liking, then an english might suit you better.

[Mark Evans]

But when I recorded myself, I had a mind boggling surprize: high reeds appeared to be louder and more full bodied, than I assumed from hearing me playing.

 

Interesting Michael. As a young singer I would come to my weekly lesson well prepaired and rehearsed.

While singing the weeks aria du jour, my long suffering teacher would stop me after a phrase containing a dramatic, forte high note. "Too swallowed!" she would scream. I thought it was manly and was rather offended that she thought otherwise. The darling eventualy talked me into making what I thought was a thin, Nancy-boy, quasi-castrato sound. My ear and soul rejected it out of hand. I was asked to repeat the phrase as she recorded it. The play-back was a shock. There was my voice as I had dreamed it could be, full, healthy volume and certainly no Nancy-boy whine.

 

It is believed that since the voice is within the human, we really don't precive it as it lives outside of ourselves until we are convinced to listen to the vocal instrument rather than feel it from within. Your experience gives me pause, for it is also assumed by conventional vocal pedagogy that when playing an instrument one can hear its true tone for it is free of our own body. Thanks for the teaser.

 

Devin, good luck on your choice. By the way, I love your avatar. Is that your bully?

Edited February 22, 2007 by Mark Evans

[chris]

Hi

I know when I have bought instruments (see other threads) where ever possible I will ask someone else to play it while I stand in front and listen to what is being projected. It is often significantly different to what you hear whilst playing it yourself. As an aside I would wish that a lot of amateur groups would record their rehersals. They would find it interesting I think.

chris

[devinomatic]

The advice you've all offered has been great! I'm pretty set on the Jackie after some though, especially after reading about the muddiness and overpowering nature of the lower notes, which was always a concern with my accordion when the bass reeds were on.

 

The avatar bulldog is mine! His name is Porter, and he's scared to death of me when I'm playing accordion.

 

 

[Mark Evans]

Devin, what a fine fellow Porter is! He looks to be in excellent shape. I have a red brindle as well, but his head is white and at 8 is getting rather long in the tooth. I hope he will beat the odds and lasts a few more years as we all adore him. Remarkable animals bulldogs.

 

Oh, good luck with the Jackie and welcome ta' club!

Edited February 22, 2007 by Mark Evans

[ragtimer]

I suppose you have considered a duet? Pricey, difficult to master but as its name suggests well suited to playing a 'full' tune? That's what I went for after years of accordian and I'm sold. It's the ultimate 'one man band' concertina

 

I tried duets (McCann, Crane, Hayden), found Crane most to my liking, but also realised it better to be treated like a piano: with rigorous (more or less) study etc. Lack of time viered me off this manly instrument and ultimately brought to a dork's refuge - the peculiar English Concertina. It's so dorky, it'll be very good for a sweaty rock band.

I play Hayden Duet and would disagree with the notion that it needs to be treated like a "serious" instrument, with years of rigorous study. Sure, one can approach it that way and become a virtuoso, but for the short term, the Hayden is an ideal way to start playing bass and chords with the left hand without too much study, and melodies are easy to pick out on the RH. And you can always play melody on the LH side when you want a darker tone.

 

The public doesn't know one type of 'tina from another, so a Duet will look just as dorky and out of place in a rock band, as would an English

 

As for squeezing your thumbs off competing to be heard, you'll probalby want to retrofit some sort of pickup and jack into the amp mixer, no matter what type box you wind up with.

Happy squeezins -- Mike K.

[m3838]

I play Hayden Duet and would disagree with the notion that it needs to be treated like a "serious" instrument, with years of rigorous study. Sure, one can approach it that way and become a virtuoso, but for the short term, the Hayden is an ideal way to start playing bass and chords with the left hand without too much study,

 

Hmm.

I envy you then. I tried and hit the wall. And the EC is exactly opposite for me. I don't have much trouble figuring out the harmonic fingering, when I write the notes of chords down. It has to be wrteen though, and as I read, reading the dots is a curse of EC players. I guess it's not as intuitive as push/pull easy harmony of the Anglo.

[ragtimer]

 

I play Hayden Duet and would disagree with the notion that it needs to be treated like a "serious" instrument, with years of rigorous study. Sure, one can approach it that way and become a virtuoso, but for the short term, the Hayden is an ideal way to start playing bass and chords with the left hand without too much study,

 

Hmm.

I envy you then. I tried and hit the wall. And the EC is exactly opposite for me. I don't have much trouble figuring out the harmonic fingering, when I write the notes of chords down. It has to be wrteen though, and as I read, reading the dots is a curse of EC players. I guess it's not as intuitive as push/pull easy harmony of the Anglo.

I guess it really is an individual, personal, thing. I can imagine that the EC is fairly easy to find 3rds and 5ths to make chords, but there's always the problem that thte next melody note will land in the middle of your chord fingers (not a problem if you're just making chords to accompany a group or your singing).

 

I've tried finding chords on an Anglo, and some nice ones are there, but of course they vanish (or worse) when you reverse the bellows. Yet people like Jody Kruskal can play an Anglo like it's a Duet.

 

It seems that everyone has found a way to do some chords to their own satisfaction on their chosen version of the instrument. So what works for you is best.

 

I would still advise anyone who jsut wants to play chords, to pick up a Duet, especially since both hands can contribute to chord voicing, if no melody is being played also. --Mike K.

[m3838]

[

 

I would still advise anyone who jsut wants to play chords, to pick up a Duet, especially since both hands can contribute to chord voicing, if no melody is being played also. --Mike K.

 

I agree. Imagine those chords on both hands of a duet! Such sound!

But the question is often, and in this case particularly, the price and availability.s

So far - the Jackie/Jack or the Rochelle.

Hey, doesn't it look like those instruments are becoming something of a cult?

We can form a club of Wakker Cubs.

[Peter]

The public doesn't know one type of 'tina from another

Correction, the public doesn't know what a concertina is at all!

[JimLucas]

Hey, doesn't it look like those instruments are becoming something of a cult?

We can form a club of Wakker Cubs.

It's good to know that Wakkers aren't only for use by the old and infirm.