Noel Hill On Tg4

[Larryo]

I think what Peter says is interesting and also brings up for me the question of liking someone's playing/the music they produce and /or admiring their technique. And indeed the issue of exposure to various ways and styles of playing coupled with difficulties in gaining access to concertina playing/tuition presented by living in locations inside and outside of Ireland.

For example within Ireland, Peter living in Miltown Malbay would have far more opportunities to hear good players than I do living in Dublin and almost as a consequence would have a more varied choice of teachers for himself or his children. In ringing around Comhaltas branches in the Dublin area looking for lessons, I could find just three teachers,two whose class was full as in really full, and I found two more in neighbouring counties, whereas I am sure Peter could find two in his parish alone. There may well be more teachers in Dublin but I didn't find them. In fact I think I have only heard Yvonne Griffin once and that was on radio many moons ago.

However what I do hear on the grapevine , is that although there a lots of teachers in the areas around Clare especially, parents will quite often send their children to Noel for lessons, secure in the knowledge that they will get a great grounding in technique. It is also possible and I definitely don't want to appear to speak for anyone else, that some parents whilst sending their offspring to Noel would be quite happy if the children whilst developing their own style would adapt any style other than Noel's. I was glue to the TV the other night quite keen to hear Noel but to be honest if there had been a session anywhere near by where I could hear concertina playing, any concertina playing I wouldn't have bothered. In fact whilst acknowledging the work that Noel has done in pioneering concertina techniques, I wouldn't cross the street to hear him. If he was teaching nearby would I go for lessons? Sure- to get hints and tips ! But I would much prefer the idea of travelling once a fortnight/month for lessons from someone who style I really like and I would be more than willing to sacrifice technique hints for hints on how to make my music sound nicer for me as opposed to sounding technically brilliant. It is important to say that unfortunately neither of these apply at present !!

I also find that some players, and not only concertina players, having broken ground and brought about great advances in the instrument, then have a difficulty in "stopping" and adapting what Peter calls the less is more aspect. Their playing becomes more and more laden down with "look what I can do now" whilst the simplicity and beauty of the tune becomes lost. I was interested to read the notes on the international concertina CD where some player whose name escapes me, said words to the effect that he had spent the first half of his career putting every thing he could into the tunes and is now intent on taking it all back out again !!

Anyway, just an opinion and not intended to say that one taste is better than the other.

[Guest Peter Laban]

OK I am back from Ennis, the young person of the family had his 90 minutes with Noel Hill. I do think Hill is a tremendous concertinaplayer and a very skilled teacher. My son started with Edel Fox by the way, who lives just over a mile away and he has done Willie week classes with Aoife Kelly, Brid Meaney and Hugh Healey so that got him a variety of angles.

I do like to hear Hill in certain contexts the reunion with Tony Linnane was absolutely brilliant but I didn't for example go to the concert he did in the Crosses of Annagh on the 30th of December even though it was practically on my doorstep.

 

As for exposure, I see quite a bit of Dympna O Sullivan and I like her and her playing, ofcourse I play music with Kitty Hayes at least once a week (the Dympna and Kitty duet mentioned earlier in this thread was filmed in my livingroom). Kitty and myself played at a local concert in support of the Clare Cancer centre last night. Now that was a purely local affair, concertina wise Kitty played, Edel Fox did a spot and there were at least 15 teenagers playing the concertina in various combinations and lovely players all of them. And that was not by far the total number of local players. None of Tommy McCarty's grandaughters were playing for example (Luci Benagh is a lovely young concertinaplayer). We're not starved for concertinas here anyway.

 

I think it's good to develop technique and lots of it but it's restraint that is a sign of really great music. Just an opinion of course.

Edited January 13, 2007 by Peter Laban

[Jim Stetson]

I'm sure you have some company, but I for one appreciate the fact that he can find more in a tune than most people will ever realize is there.

 

Well I'm all for emotion in music but I suppose I'm allergic to (what I consider to be) excessive vibrato in any music and on any instrument, or voice for that matter. I have always found that when players or singers or actors try to put too much overt emotion into something they actually reduce the emotional impact of the piece on the listener (at least on me anyway), partly because they make the listener acutely aware of the performer rather than the piece itself. It's a fine line to tread admittedly but for me Noel certainly crosses it on one of the tunes in the program.

 

Then there is the question of the instrument. Trying to produce vibrato from a free-reed instrumentby shaking it strikes me as akin to a singer trying to do the same by jumping up and down... half-joking of course, but I don't think the vibrato produced is pleasing to the ear in the same way that it can be on stringed or woodwind instruments for example.

 

But as you say it's a matter of personal taste, of course, I would never dispute that.

 

I greatly admire and generally love listening to Noel, btw, and have done for decades.

 

Steve

I think Noel is playing the March of the King of Louth in a Baroque style because it is a Baroque piece after all, and Baroque music is full of trills and vibrato. As Dana points out, Noel is not shaking the concertina but rapidly pumping the bellows ever so slightly. He does it with his arms rather than his hands or wrists and it's difficult to do with such control. But yes, it's definitely a style thing and he could play without the vibrato and it would still be a kick-ass performance.

 

I love the way Noel does so many subtle things to enrich the music. All the squeeks and squawks and barks he gets out of the reeds, the layers of texture and nuance--it elevates simple dance music into the realm of fine art. His posture may look odd but he is using the side of his leg to reflect the sound from the high reeds toward the audience. This makes sense acoustically because high frequencies are very directional and low frequencies aren't.

[Guest Peter Laban]

the March of the King of Louth in a Baroque style because it is a Baroque piece after all

 

Is it? Are you really sure Ruairi Og O Mordha in 16th century Ireland had a stronghold of Italian composers handy?

 

Laois was the kingdom by the way.

Edited January 14, 2007 by Peter Laban

[Greg Jowaisas]

I find the strong reactions to Noel Hill and his playing very interesting.

 

I remember hearing the Hill/Linnane albulm for the first time 15 years ago. I was coming from a background of American old-time and folk music with some exposure to english concertina. I thought,

"What planet is this guy from!!"

 

Over the years this impression has only grown to the realization that he is a player and artist with enough "gravity" to be practically a force of nature.

 

You may like him or not, agree with him or not, but Noel is certainly impossible to ignore.

 

He has made significant contributions as a teacher, player, interpreter, innovator and promoter of Traditional Irish Music. I suppose he can be forgiven some excess in vibrato and piping ornaments.

 

While acknowledging Noel's presence, it is important not to overlook the other "stars" in the TIM fermament.

There are indeed some other fine older and younger concertina players and interpreters that are wonderful to listen to, learn from and imitate.

 

Greg

[Dana Johnson]

Over the last 12 years, I've listened to Noel play in different circumstances and watched him change as a player. It is interesting to me to see how much his playing has changed since I first heard him play. Most of what I've heard has been out of the concert setting in more casual circumstances, and I notice that when he is infront of a larger audience, he tends to do something a bit different with the music. On his Irish Concertina 2 album, he plays The Mountains of Pommeroy. It is very public in style, as if he were an orator speaking to a large crowd. It has it's musical face outward ( I can't find a really good way to express this ). I have a recording of him playing this air that I vastly prerfer, not for any difference in the quality or taste expressed, but simply because it is of Noel playing completely lost in the piece, more fully expressive and introspective, not of himself but of the piece of music. I am fortunate to hear him like this more than any other way in front of people who he has nothing to prove. I prefer Noel's private face to the public one. Over the years I've watched him move through the music always finding something different in it, changing his style, sometimes in ways that take me a bit to get used to, or in directions I wouldn't have gone, but he is who he is, and I find that knowing his character makes it easier to follow the musical journey which I find immensely interesting.

 

Noel isn't the only concertina player I listen to, or the only one I consider to be as good a musician. While he is technically excellent. That is the least of what he is. For me he is an inspiration to always look deeper into the music, and someone I can talk to who gets how deep and far it goes.

Dana

[CaryK]

Recording on an Apple with QuickTime Pro works. Thanks for the tip earlier. I can now burn to DVD and iPod export easily. Took an hour to figure it all out, but seems to be smooth.

 

 

Lawrence, I would be very interested in knowing how you did this. I have an Apple with QuickTime Pro also, and while I can play the video I don't seem to be able to save it. Get just a blank screen when I do that. Thanks.

[Guest Peter Laban]

Over the last 12 years, I've listened to Noel play in different circumstances and watched him change as a player. It is interesting to me to see how much his playing has changed since I first heard him play. Most of what I've heard has been out of the concert setting in more casual circumstances, and I notice that when he is infront of a larger audience, he tends to do something a bit different with the music. On his Irish Concertina 2 album, he plays The Mountains of Pommeroy. It is very public in style, as if he were an orator speaking to a large crowd. It has it's musical face outward ( I can't find a really good way to express this ). I have a recording of him playing this air that I vastly prerfer, not for any difference in the quality or taste expressed, but simply because it is of Noel playing completely lost in the piece, more fully expressive and introspective, not of himself but of the piece of music. I am fortunate to hear him like this more than any other way in front of people who he has nothing to prove. I prefer Noel's private face to the public one. Over the years I've watched him move through the music always finding something different in it, changing his style, sometimes in ways that take me a bit to get used to, or in directions I wouldn't have gone, but he is who he is, and I find that knowing his character makes it easier to follow the musical journey which I find immensely interesting.

 

I think that's more or less what I meant when I said 'it depends on context'.

Edited January 14, 2007 by Peter Laban

[Jim Stetson]

the March of the King of Louth in a Baroque style because it is a Baroque piece after all

 

Is it? Are you really sure Ruairi Og O Mordha in 16th century Ireland had a stronghold of Italian composers handy?

 

Laois was the kingdom by the way.

 

If the king in question is Rory O'Moore, that would put him in the 17th century. Some musicians, particularly court musicians, traveled extensively and could have picked up lots of influences from Europe. The Baroque style was not limited to Italy, it spread throughout the world--there are Baroque churches in Mexico. But I understand there is a century-long debate over what the Baroque style is and when it started. I guess what I should have said was not that this is a Baroque piece but that playing it using elements of the Baroque style would be an appropriate setting.

 

You're right, Laois is the correct name. I don't know where I got Louth--wrong county. I only heard it pronounced and should have looked it up. I heard Noel play this live a year or two ago and he described the kingdom as being in the center of Ireland. Louth is on the coast. Though I'm from the Celtic part of Oakland, we don't speak Gaelic here.

 

Jim (Not Irish, but I'd love to see Ireland some day)

Edited January 15, 2007 by Jim Stetson

[Dana Johnson]

Recording on an Apple with QuickTime Pro works. Thanks for the tip earlier. I can now burn to DVD and iPod export easily. Took an hour to figure it all out, but seems to be smooth.

 

 

Lawrence, I would be very interested in knowing how you did this. I have an Apple with QuickTime Pro also, and while I can play the video I don't seem to be able to save it. Get just a blank screen when I do that. Thanks.

Once the thing had completely downloaded, I had no problem saving it with QuickTime Pro. What version do you have. I am running 7.1.3 I couldn't save it as long as it was playing, but after that, it was completely usual with the typical dialog asking if I wanted to save it as a self contained movie, or just the referenced file (link).

Dana

[CaryK]

Recording on an Apple with QuickTime Pro works. Thanks for the tip earlier. I can now burn to DVD and iPod export easily. Took an hour to figure it all out, but seems to be smooth.

 

 

Lawrence, I would be very interested in knowing how you did this. I have an Apple with QuickTime Pro also, and while I can play the video I don't seem to be able to save it. Get just a blank screen when I do that. Thanks.

Once the thing had completely downloaded, I had no problem saving it with QuickTime Pro. What version do you have. I am running 7.1.3 I couldn't save it as long as it was playing, but after that, it was completely usual with the typical dialog asking if I wanted to save it as a self contained movie, or just the referenced file (link).

Dana

 

Thanks, Dana. I'll try that. I was trying to save it before it was completely downloaded. Taht was my problem.

[Guest Peter Laban]

If the king in question is Rory O'Moore, that would put him in the 17th century. Some musicians, particularly court musicians, traveled extensively and could have picked up lots of influences from Europe. The Baroque style was not limited to Italy, it spread throughout the world--there are Baroque churches in Mexico. But I understand there is a century-long debate over what the Baroque style is and when it started. I guess what I should have said was not that this is a Baroque piece but that playing it using elements of the Baroque style would be an appropriate setting.

 

Hi Jim, I post below what the Fiddler's Companion has to say about the tune. I was a bit sarcastic yesterday and probably shouldn't have been, while Carolan was influenced by Germiniani, I don't think the Irish harp tradition (the little we know of it anyway) could or should be regarded as 'baroque'.

 

 

 

MARCH OF THE KING OF LAOIS. AKA - "The King of Laois." AKA and see "Rory O'Mo(o)re," "Rory of the Hills." Irish, March (3/8 time). G Major. Standard. AB. This ancient melody has been associated with the O'Moore family and may have been composed in praise of one Ruairi Og O Mordha, a head of the family during the 16th century and a famous Irish hero of the resistance to English colonization of the time (Sean Mac Reamoinn). The name 'Laois' is pronounced 'lay-eesh'. "March of the King of Laois" first appears in Bunting's 2nd collection of 1809 set in 6/8 time with the title "Rory O Moor: King of Leixs March." Phillipe Varlet sees some resemblance to "The Hurler's March" which Bunting obtained from the collector George Petrie and printed in his next collection of 1840. Bulmer & Sharpley (Music from Ireland), Vol. 2, No. 81. Johnson (The Kitchen Musician's Occasional: Waltz, Air and Misc.), No. 1, 1991; pg. 13. June Appal 016, Malcolm Dalglish and Grey Larsen - "Banish Misfortune." Kicking Mule 157, Duck Baker - "Irish Jigs, Reels, Hornpipes and Airs." Outlet 1019, The O'Brien Family - "Ulster Outcry" (1974). RCA 09026-60916-2, The Chieftains - "An Irish Evening" (1991). Shanachie 79023, "Chieftains 3" (1971/1982). Shanachie 97011, Duck Baker - "Irish Reels, Jigs, Airs and Hornpipes" (1990. Learned from a recording by Sean O'Riada). Paul Dooley - "Rip the Calico."

T:March of the Kings of Laois

R:march

Z:id:hn-march-14

M:6/8

K:Dmix

Z:transcribed by Henrik Norbeck

A2F A2D|A2F A2D|B2G A2F|G2F E>FG|

A2F A2D|A2F A2d|B2d A>dG|F>dF E2D|F>ED G>FE|

A3 A>GF|E>cG E>CE|G>cG E>CE|D>ED D>ED|D>ED D3:|

|:B2G d2G|B>AG d2G|A2d A2d|F2d A>dA|

B2d d>BA|G>FG E>FG|F>ED G>AB|A3 AGF|

E>cG E>CE|G>cG E>CE|D>ED D>ED|D>ED D3:|

 

RORY OF THE HILLS (Ruaidri Na Cnoc). AKA and see "Rory O'Moore," "March of the King of Laois." Irish, March (6/8 time). D Mixolydian. Standard. AB. The title is perhaps associated with the O'Moore/O'More family, states Johnson (1991), whose 16th century head of the family was Ruairi Og O Mordha. The O'More family lands were in the County Leix, and, when the English sought to usurp them by importing settlers, establishing a new goverenment and renaming the county Queens, Rory and his followers waged a successful six year guerilla war against them. Though Rory was killed while reconnoitering a force brought against him, his soldiers avenged his death and routed the enemy. O'More's name became an inspiration and a rallying cry: "God, and Our Lady, and Rory O'More!" (Seamus MacManus). O'Neill (1913), whose version seems identical to Bunting's "March of the King of Laois," printed in his collection of 1809, mentions this tune as a "splendid martial air." A story, told by Ann Heymann in Secrets of the Gaelic Harp, describes an event in 1599 when the Earl of Essex, the Queen's representative, visited one of the Lairds of Munster with his guide, a Mr. Delahide. They participated in a great feast at which a harper appeared at the door and asked to entertain the company, as was the custom. Delahide asked in Irish for a certain song he heard the bard perform before and when he does there is consternation in the audience, for he requested "The Lament of Ownry Rory O'More," as he was More's seanachie. When Essex asks, he is told that Delahide asked the harper for "The Lament of Ownry Rory O'More", as he was More's seanachie. The natives are astonished to hear this tribute to a rebel played before the Queen's representative, and their is some fear of a riot breaking out, as the native Irish gather at both door and window to hear the harp. O'Neill (1850), 1979; No. 1810, pg. 340.

 

RORY O'MO{O}RE ("Ruaidri Ua Morda" or "Ruadhraí Ó Mórdha"). AKA and see "Rory of the Hills," "March of the King of Laois," "Good Omen," "I'll Follow You My Dear." Scottish, Irish, New England; Double Jig and Country Dance Tune: English, Morris Dance Tune. A Major (Athole, Cole, Hardings, Kerr, Miller & Perron, Phillips, SweetSkye): G Major (Feldman & O'Doherty): G Major {'A' part} & E Minor {'B' part} (Mallinson, O'Neill, Trim): F Major (Bacon): D Major (Winscott): B Flat Major (Stanford/Petrie). Standard. One part (Stanford/Petrie): AB (Bacon): AAB (Skye): AABB (Athole, Cole, Kerr, Miller & Perron, Sweet, Trim): AABB' (Hardings, O'Neill): AA'BB' (Feldman & O'Doherty): AABB'BB' (Phillips): AB,x6 (Mallinson, Winscott). Composed by Samuel Lover, this melody was the "hit tune" of 1837. Although initially a dance tune (a popular Scottish country dance is called "Rory O'More"), it was absorbed as a common march in the Victorian era British army and can be found in martial manuscript books dating from the 1850's (Winscott). The melody was picked up by morris dancers from the village of Adderbury, Oxfordshire, in England's Cotswolds and used as a rural dance vehicle. Overseas, in America it also caught popular fancy and appeared in Elias Howe's 1858 collection, surviving and achieving some longevity in its initial genre, a country dance tune, which was, for example, commonly played for country dances in Orange County, New York, as late as the 1930's (Lettie Osborn, New York Folklore Quarterly). The title appears in a repertoire list of Maine's Mellie Dunham, an elderly fiddler who was Henry Ford's champion on the instrument in the late 1920's. See note for "Rory of the Hills" for information on the Irish hero Rory O'More. Sources for notated versions: "From Miss Ross" [stanford/Petrie]; fiddler Pete Sutherland (Vt.) [Phillips]; Francie and Mickey Byrne (County Donegal) [Feldman & O'Doherty]. Bacon (The Morris Ring), 1974; pg, 12. Cole (1001 Fiddle Tunes), 1940; pg. 62. Feldman & O'Doherty (The Northern Fiddler), 1979; pg. 159. Hardings All-Round Collection, 1905; No. 186, pg. 59. Jarman (Old Time Fiddlin' Tunes), No. or pg. 16. Kerr (Merry Melodies), Vol. 1; No. 18, pg. 37. MacDonald (The Skye Collection), 1887; pg. 167. Mallinson (Mally's Cotswold Morris), 1988, Vol. 2; No. 23, pg. 13. Miller & Perron (New England Fiddler's Repertoire), 1983; No. 5. O'Neill (Krassen), 1976; pg. 34. O'Neill (1001 Gems), 1986; No. 116, pg. 34. Phillips (Traditional American Fiddle Tunes), Vol. 2, 1995; pg. 377. Stanford/Petrie (Complete Collection), 1905; No. 740, pg. 185. Stewart-Robertson (The Athole Collection), 1884; pg. 144. Sweet (Fifer's Delight), 1965/1981; pg. 22. Trim (Thomas Hardy), 1990; No. 32. Winstock (Songs and Music of the Redcoats), 1970; pg. 217. Alcazar Dance Series FR 204, Rodney Miller - "New England Chestnuts" (1980). F&W Records 1, "F&W String Band." Fretless 101, "The Campbell Family: Champion Fiddlers."

T:Rory O'More

L:1/8

M:6/8

R:Country Dance

B:The Athole Collection

K:A

f|eAA cAA|eAA Aaf|edc cBA|GBB B2f|eAA cAA|eAA f2e/d/|cde efg|aAA A2:|

|:a|agf fcc|dcB A2G|FGA ABc|cfe e2a|agf fcc|dcB A2 A/G/|FGA ABc|cfe e2:|

T:Rory O'More

L:1/8

M:6/8

K:A

eAA cAA|eAA F3|edc cBA|GBB Bcd|ecA cBA|ece fed|cde efg|a2A A3:|

|:agf fcc|dcB A2G|FGA ABc|Bee efg|agf f2c|dcB A2G|FGA ABc|Bee e2

[Jim Stetson]

Hi Jim, I post below what the Fiddler's Companion has to say about the tune...

Wow.

Peter, great research. Now, if I ever learn to play this tune, I will have a few intelligent words of introduction for it.

Thanks,

Jim

[Lawrence Reeves]

Absolutely right. I forgot to mention that you have to wait for the video to play through. Now those other Apple geeks on the forum would be happy to know that these saved files easily import to iDVD to burn discs, and also to store on a large external drive to keep the entire series. I have even converted to play on my video iPod. Anyone wishing to do so can also convert to an MP3 or AIFF to play on iPod as audio only. The only drawback is that it takes an eternity to convert formats. Next I wll try running through Garage Band and eliminate unwanted dialogue and commercials for the audio only files.

Is there another site with these types of videos? I would love to get hours of sean nos dancing.

[Guest Old Leaky]

When all's said and done, that Noel Hill is a gas fella, sure he is now. And that's the truth. As for all you concertina buffs and computer geeks out there - I like you, really, but I couldn't eat a whole one.