A Really Odd One On Ebay

[ragtimer]

What do folks think of eBay item 19003692127?

 

This is an old 20-button Anglo, but has some unique features:

 

1. The box has 6 sides, but is like an octagon sawed in half. The long flat "sawed" side goes toward the player's body.

 

2. The reeds are mounted perpendicular to the pad board, but in individual cylindrical cans that look like little organ pipes. They may be of metal. Someone went to a lot of extra trouble to build the reed cells this way, so I wonder if they are tuned to resonate with the reeds' harmonics?

 

3. The action is typical cheap wooden, except that each arm has its own pivot block glued to the action board.

 

I'd love to get my hands on this one long enough to hear what it sounds like.

--Mike K.

[Boney]

It appears you mean 190036921279?

 

It does look very unusual.

[Dave Prebble]

What do folks think of eBay item 19003692127?

 

This is an old 20-button Anglo, but has some unique features:

 

1. The box has 6 sides, but is like an octagon sawed in half. The long flat "sawed" side goes toward the player's body.

 

2. The reeds are mounted perpendicular to the pad board, but in individual cylindrical cans that look like little organ pipes. They may be of metal. Someone went to a lot of extra trouble to build the reed cells this way, so I wonder if they are tuned to resonate with the reeds' harmonics?

 

3. The action is typical cheap wooden, except that each arm has its own pivot block glued to the action board.

 

I'd love to get my hands on this one long enough to hear what it sounds like.

--Mike K.

 

 

The answer may be in the 'organ pipes' - looks like it may be a box full of whistles to me

 

Dave

[JimLucas]

The answer may be in the 'organ pipes' - looks like it may be a box full of whistles to me

Look again, Dave. They do look like whistles at first glance, but a closer look tells me there's a reed mounted on the dividing wall in each cylinder. In fact, the near ones seem to have leather valves located "below" the visible reeds... for the reeds on the "inside", I presume.

 

An interesting way of creating individual "chambers" for each reed, though the apparent uniformity seems contrary to conclusions of those here who have experimented with chamber dimensions.

[DavidFR]

An interesting way of creating individual "chambers" for each reed, though the apparent uniformity seems contrary to conclusions of those here who have experimented with chamber dimensions.

I agree with you Jim, though if you look at the photo of the "pipes" through the far end of the bellows, it looks to me like they have a few different sizes of "chamber" for different reeds.

[asdormire]

I am glad I am not the only one who found that instrument fascinating, Has any one ever worked on those wood actions before? The oldest box I own has them, and some times I wish I could tighten up the action on them.

 

Alan

[Theodore Kloba]

Has any one ever worked on those wood actions before?

Yes... The outer rows on Bandoneons and older Chemnitzers are made this way. The only way I've ever successfully tightened them is by turning on a humidifier. Edited October 5, 2006 by Theodore Kloba

[ragtimer]

An interesting way of creating individual "chambers" for each reed, though the apparent uniformity seems contrary to conclusions of those here who have experimented with chamber dimensions.

I agree with you Jim, though if you look at the photo of the "pipes" through the far end of the bellows, it looks to me like they have a few different sizes of "chamber" for different reeds.

In fact, I get the impression that every reed "pipe" is a different length.

That's why I think this is a deliberate attempt to use resonances.

 

As for wooden actions -- I have a cheap old Anglo that is totally trashed due to the reed blocks breaking loose and banging into each other, so it's useful only as a theater stage prop. It has a wooden action with a single pivot rail made of a length of wire serving all notes on that side.

 

I thought the eBay 'tina was special since each lever has its own pivot.

 

But those resonators are really intriguing. Someone in the UK please buy this beast and tell us how it sounds!

--Mike K.

[ragtimer]

It appears you mean 190036921279?

Yes, sorry, my browser's bookmark editor ran out of characters and dropped the last digit.

It does look very unusual.

Inside AND outside! --Mike K.

[John Sylte]

There's no air button...

[ragtimer]

There's no air button...

Oh, but there is! You can see its large pallet valve and spring in the down-the-throat view inside the bellows. The valve is located on the long flat side of the frame, towards the player. I figured it could be reached with the thumb.

 

The seller's text even mentions an oddly placed button that "seems not to do anything" -- five quid that's the air button.

 

Now, it might be a retrofit -- lots of air buttons on old squeezers are, so I've read. --Mike K.

[Stephen Chambers]

1. The box has 6 sides, but is like an octagon sawed in half. The long flat "sawed" side goes toward the player's body.

Mike,

 

Mid-19th century German concertina makers used all sorts of fanciful shapes, including circular, pentagonal (house-shaped);

 

 

or even that of a "Pickelhaube" (German spiked-helmet);

 

 

 

2. The reeds are mounted perpendicular to the pad board, but in individual cylindrical cans that look like little organ pipes. They may be of metal.

I'm surprised that nobody has commented on their resemblance to pitch pipes, which they remind me very strongly of. Free reed pitchpipes, in metal tubes like those, were being made from the 1840s onwards.

 

There's no air button...

Oh, but there is! You can see its large pallet valve and spring in the down-the-throat view inside the bellows. The valve is located on the long flat side of the frame, towards the player. I figured it could be reached with the thumb.

 

The seller's text even mentions an oddly placed button that "seems not to do anything" -- five quid that's the air button.

Yep, that's the usual German style of air button.

 

Now, it might be a retrofit -- lots of air buttons on old squeezers are, so I've read.

Really?

[ragtimer]

1. The box has 6 sides, but is like an octagon sawed in half. The long flat "sawed" side goes toward the player's body.

Mid-19th century German concertina makers used all sorts of fanciful shapes, including circular, pentagonal (house-shaped);

 

or even that of a "Pickelhaube" (German spiked-helmet);

 

Wow -- those are just too cute for words! Who says the Germans have no sense of humor? I wonder if these were made as novelties to sell to tourists?

2. The reeds are mounted perpendicular to the pad board, but in individual cylindrical cans that look like little organ pipes. They may be of metal.

I'm surprised that nobody has commented on their resemblance to pitch pipes, which they remind me very strongly of. Free reed pitchpipes, in metal tubes like those, were being made from the 1840s onwards.

Yes, I once owned a Kratt six-note pitchpipe, of small tubes like that, set in a plastic block and tuned to the guitar string notes. But all 6 tubes were the same length -- no attempt at resonance.

 

Now maybe the tubes in the antique 'tina on eBay are just varying lengths to hold their reeds, and not resonate in anyway -- but in the one photo they really vary more than you'd expect just for the reeds.

The seller's text even mentions an oddly placed button that "seems not to do anything" -- five quid that's the air button.

Yep, that's the usual German style of air button.

 

Now, it might be a retrofit -- lots of air buttons on old squeezers are, so I've read.

Really?

Well, that's what I've read and heard, though it applied to old English concertinas. I doubt any Anglo/Germans were ever made without the air key.

 

So, do we expect that the eBay instrument was made in Germany? --Mike K.

 

(Edited to try balancing the quotes -- worse than C programming!)

Edited October 7, 2006 by ragtimer

[Stephen Chambers]

Mid-19th century German concertina makers used all sorts of fanciful shapes, including ... that of a "Pickelhaube" (German spiked-helmet);

Wow -- those are just too cute for words! Who says the Germans have no sense of humor?

Mike,

 

Well, the Pickelhaube (emblem of Prussian military might) concertina, along with brand names such as "Bismarck", "Imperial" and "Empress" may be more expressions of a rising German nationalism in the last quarter of the 19th century, which culminated in the First and Second World Wars, so that may temper the "cuteness" or "humour" of that one a little?

 

The seller's text even mentions an oddly placed button that "seems not to do anything" -- five quid that's the air button.

Yep, that's the usual German style of air button. Now, it might be a retrofit -- lots of air buttons on old squeezers are, so I've read.

Really?

Well, that's what I've read and heard, though it applied to old English concertinas. I doubt any Anglo/Germans were ever made without the air key.

OK, now I understand what you mean. Most English concertinas were made without air keys because they don't actually need them, though it became a common optional extra from the 1920s onwards. I can't say that it's ever bothered me whether the English I was playing had one or not, it's a luxury rather than a necessity.

 

So, do we expect that the eBay instrument was made in Germany?

Was it ever in doubt?

Edited October 7, 2006 by Stephen Chambers

[ragtimer]

Well, the Pickelhaube (emblem of Prussian military might) concertina, along with brand names such as "Bismarck", "Imperial" and "Empress" may be more expressions of a rising German nationalism in the last quarter of the 19th century, which culminated in the First and Second World Wars, so that may temper the "cuteness" or "humour" of that one a little?

I took it to be more of a parody on the Prussian spiked helmet, as if the Germans were poking fun at themselves (or maybe some other German state like Saxony was poking fun at Prussia). Being of Danish ancestry I tend to think in terms of self-parody, which may not apply to Germans.

need them, though it became a common optional extra from the 1920s onwards. I can't say that it's ever bothered me whether the English I was playing had one or not, it's a luxury rather than a necessity.

Yes. I recall reading that "the only purpose of an air key on an English is to stow it in the case quickly."

So, do we expect that the eBay instrument was made in Germany?

Was it ever in doubt?

Not after the first few posts it wasn't. But I was thinking of another eBay tina that had "England" printed on its side. --Mike K.

 

Edited to add that at the moment there have been four bids on the oddball tina, and it's up to GBP 150.

Edited October 8, 2006 by ragtimer

[Stephen Chambers]

... those resonators are really intriguing. Someone in the UK please buy this beast and tell us how it sounds!

Mike,

 

Would somebody in Ireland do?

 

The notes that are working on it remind me of the sound of a bassoon!

 

...I get the impression that every reed "pipe" is a different length.

That's why I think this is a deliberate attempt to use resonances.

Though it may have as much to do with the lowest reeds being longer, and therefore swinging furthur, so the pipes need to be longer and wider?

 

But the most astonishing thing for me has been the sheer size of the pipes; the biggest one being 4 inches long and more than an inch in diameter.

 

There's no air button...

Oh, but there is! You can see its large pallet valve and spring in the down-the-throat view inside the bellows. The valve is located on the long flat side of the frame, towards the player. I figured it could be reached with the thumb.

 

The seller's text even mentions an oddly placed button that "seems not to do anything" -- five quid that's the air button.

Yep, that's the usual German style of air button.

What I should really have said is that that's the usual German style of air valve, at least on their larger concertinas; what the American players call a "shirt-sucker" when it's mounted on the back like that. It is normally operated by an external lever pulling on a wire, but the lever assembly has been removed and a block of wood glued directly to the valve to allow it to be pushed in.

[ragtimer]

... those resonators are really intriguing. Someone in the UK please buy this beast and tell us how it sounds!

Mike,

Would somebody in Ireland do?

Certainly, if you're the lucky soul who got it! Talk about luck o' the Irish

The notes that are working on it remind me of the sound of a bassoon!

Would that be like the low range of the bassoon (rather burpy), or the mellow upper range, which is full of resonance and character? If the latter, then those resonator (?) tubes are doing a fine job.

...I get the impression that every reed "pipe" is a different length.

That's why I think this is a deliberate attempt to use resonances.

Though it may have as much to do with the lowest reeds being longer, and therefore swinging furthur, so the pipes need to be longer and wider?

Maybe. The folks at The Button Box had to remove some wood from the inside of one of the reed cells on my Stagi Hayden, since the reed was hitting against the back side. So we know that reeds need room.

But the most astonishing thing for me has been the sheer size of the pipes; the biggest one being 4 inches long and more than an inch in diameter.

I'd say that's more than needed just to house the reed, and they were really aiming at some resonance effects. Not at the fundamental, of course, but at higher harmonics that would give the sound some character, make it different from the average accordion or anglo.

 

Thanks for your post, and I'd appreciate any more comments on the sound of this beast. --Mike K.

(edited to try balancing the quotes. Will "They" ever automate this stuff?)

Edited October 19, 2006 by ragtimer

[Hooves]

Can we hear a sound clip?