A Short Question

[Charlotte]

Hi all!

 

What does one call a short note played below the main note? Is that a cut, just as when the short note is played above the main note?

 

 

Charlotte

[JimLucas]

What does one call a short note played below the main note? Is that a cut, just as when the short note is played above the main note?

In the context of playing the whistle, I was taught to call it a "tip". And a "cut" and a "tip" in succession (with the main note sounding in between) was called a "roll".

[Charlotte]

Thanks!

[AnnC]

I thought it was called a 'grace' note ( but I could well be wrong ) it's a lovely name for a note anyway Edited July 24, 2006 by annl

[JimLucas]

I thought it was called a 'grace' note ( but I could well be wrong ) it's a lovely name for a note anyway

"Grace note" is, I believe, a classical term. But "cuts" and "tips" are both grace notes, just two different kinds, and those two words are quicker than saying "grace note above" and "grace note below".

[Boney]

I thought it was called a 'grace' note ( but I could well be wrong ) it's a lovely name for a note anyway

"Grace note" is, I believe, a classical term. But "cuts" and "tips" are both grace notes, just two different kinds, and those two words are quicker than saying "grace note above" and "grace note below".

I think cuts and taps (or tips, or pats, or whateveryouwannacallem) should be quicker than what most people mean by "grace notes." Just a quick blip.

[Nigel]

Are there any rules/conventions as to which notes you should use to cut or tip a note? By that I mean, does it have to be the note immediatetely above or below the main note, or could any note be used? I am thinking of the necessity of keeping the bellows direction the same ( on an anglo) in order to play the note quickly enough.

 

Also, when do you decide to use a cut or tip? Again I am wondering if there any conventions that govern their use.

 

Thanks

Nigel

[Theodore Kloba]

"Grace note" is, I believe, a classical term. But "cuts" and "tips" are both grace notes, just two different kinds, and those two words are quicker than saying "grace note above" and "grace note below".

Grace note is the general term for any ornament that's written out on the staff with small notes; more specific classical terms are appoggiatura and accacciatura which are long and short in duration respectively and have no shorthand names for whether they are above or below the main note. There's also a trill, a mordent, and a turn, which are notated as squiggles above the note.

Are there any rules/conventions as to which notes you should use to cut or tip a note? By that I mean, does it have to be the note immediatetely above or below the main note, or could any note be used? I am thinking of the necessity of keeping the bellows direction the same ( on an anglo) in order to play the note quickly enough.

 

Also, when do you decide to use a cut or tip? Again I am wondering if there any conventions that govern their use.

I think ornamentation (or lack thereof) is important in adding personality to a performance, so I wouldn't get hung up on conventions.

 

Also, there are many different conventions, even within one musical idiom. Within "common practice" music (e.g. Baroque, classical, romantic) the ornamentation styles changed over time and of course individual composers sometimes had opinions contrary to the fashion of the day.

 

In folk music, I would bet (and maybe some ethnomusicologist has written an academic paper to the effect) that ornamentation is analogous to minor dialectical differences in language, which we can sometimes detect and use to identify a person's geographic origin.

[Dirge]

It's a grace note.

[JimLucas]

Are there any rules/conventions as to which notes you should use to cut or tip a note?

Several, depending on both the instrument being played and the person playing it... but nothing universal.

 

By that I mean, does it have to be the note immediately above or below the main note, or could any note be used? I am thinking of the necessity of keeping the bellows direction the same ( on an anglo) in order to play the note quickly enough.

On a fiddle, the cut and tip are generally the notes of the scale directly above and below the main note. On pipes, flute, and whistle the cut is often the same "note" for more than one main note, e.g., an "A" cut for all of D, E, F#, and G on a D whistle. On those the tip is still usually the note just below the main note, but not always. E.g., F# is usually used for a tip on a G, but in certain cases, some players might use an E or even a D.

 

On an anglo concertina, which I think is what you really wanted to know, my understanding is that it's common to do a cut with the button directly above the main note, though sometimes the note directly above, particularly if it's in the other hand. In either case, it's done without changing bellows direction. I'm not an expert on Irish-style anglo ornaments, but my impression from discussions here is that "tipping" with a note below the main note is much less common than "cutting" and that what concertina players call a "roll" is not usually a cut followed by a tip.

 

The reason I brought up the other instruments is to illustrate that while there may be conventions as to which particular "grace" notes are used on a given instrument, it's definitely not a requirement that everyone -- all instruments -- play their ornaments exactly the same, even at the same time.

 

Also, when do you decide to use a cut or tip? Again I am wondering if there any conventions that govern their use.

For cuts and tips, I don't think there are any conventions. Well, maybe one... don't overdo their use. For rolls, there do seem to be particular notes in some tunes where nearly everybody plays a roll, but even those can be played without.

 

The main thing is to listen to others' playing and develop a "feel" for what is attractive. Irish ornamentation isn't rigid, so rigid rules can't tell you how to "get it right".

[Chris Drinkwater]

I thought it was called a 'grace' note ( but I could well be wrong ) it's a lovely name for a note anyway

 

Well, in that case, I hope 'Grace' is taking note!

 

Chris

[Nigel]

what concertina players call a "roll" is not usually a cut followed by a tip.

 

Thanks for the replies.

Could anyone explain what anglo players call a roll, if it is not a cut followed by a tip?

 

Thanks again

Nigel