Happy Fourth Of July!

[PeterT]

Oh wow! Can you describe it?

It's the most amazing experience; I've been down to Lewes (Sussex) several times.

 

Important point; Lewes is a small, but very attractive town (I did a Folk Club booking in a club which used to run there - not the current one), and thousands of people turn up for the celebrations on 5th November (or 4th, if the 5th falls on a Sunday). Don't even think about arriving by car; the roads are closed, and you'll have to walk miles to see the action. Lewes railway station is just 400 yards from the main street, and is on the direct line from London Victoria, via east Croydon. Extra trains run on the night, so getting back should not be a problem.

 

During the afternoon, shop-keepers nail boards over the shop windows, to ensure that they do not get smashed (this is England, after all). Local pubs will generally only admit regulars (although I've managed to get in for a swift drink a couple of times).

 

By about 5.00 pm, the crash barriers have been erected, and people are trying for the best vantage points. Once you've got one, it's often best to stay put for 2/3 hours, and let part of the show come to you.

 

I can't remember the exact timings; somewhere, I have a couple of old programmes, but can't think where, at present. The evening goes something like:

 

(1) The five Lewes Bonfire Societies parade through town, in costume (they are really great). In the main street (Eastern end) I think that you see either two or three of the societies. I think this is the best spot for viewing.

(2) The five Societies parade again, only this time carrying burning crosses, and flaming torches (some of which get thrown to the side of the road, still burning, when almost finished). It's hot, and dangerous (by the way, wear old clothing, you'll be amazed at the stink, the next morning!)

(3) Firework are set off whilst each Society is standing "on parade". The Cliff Society is the most lively, dressed as Pirates, and they throw fire crackers down in the street as they march along. The sound is deafening, and the smoke gets everywhere. The crowd usually gets quite excited at this point. As well as the costumes, giant images are carried along on floats, and these will later be burnt at the five individual Bonfire sites around town. You might see images of, for example, Tony Blair, The Pope etc., and the burning of there images is a reminder that in less civilised times, people were persecuted and burned for their religious beliefs.

(4) By about 9.30 or 10.00 pm, the Bonfire Societies march off to their individual sites for a display of fireworks etc. I once stayed for part of this, but it seemed to take forever to start, whilst waiting for everyone to pass in opposite directions though some very narrow streets.

 

Hope that this has given you sufficient information to make you want to join the throng, one year.

 

Regards,

Peter.

[Mark Evans]

Thank you Jim. As you well know I was very "down" this year about the U.S. of A and our misaventures. Your words brought a smile to my face and sparked many fond memories of 4th of July fireworks shared with my loved ones (I will mention that we have had some fine celebrations of Le jour de St. Jean de Baptist as well).

 

Profound thoughts Jim.

 

A little off concertina topic once in a while is a fine tonic (now if I could just russel up some gin and lime to go with it ).

Edited July 5, 2006 by Mark Evans

[JimLucas]

A little off concertina topic once in a while is a fine tonic (now if I could just russel up some gin and lime to go with it ).

Don't know about gin & lime, but maybe you could skip to another Topic and rustle some bullocks?

[greenferry]

PS Chris Allert, for those of us outside the States, it's good to be reminded that not all Americans are behind the government 100% as it sometimes seems from our media. Thanks.

Just to confirm: The latest polls (July 3, ABC News/Washington Post) show that 3/5 of Americans (58%) say the war in Ira q is not worth fighting. Bush's approval rating was just 29% in May (Harris Poll). It's unfortunate that foreign media [including the UK] are misrepresenting the views of ordinary Americans as reflecting the current Administration's actions.

 

I don't think that was what Jim's post was about, however. Jim was pointing to the freedoms we gained by demanding a Constitution that provides for equality. As he notes, it marked a *beginning.* Even though things are imperfect [and we have lots of areas of inequality], our citizens nevertheless have far more freedoms here than just about anyplace else on Earth, and our Constitution established a model for other nations to follow [but they shouldn't be forced to, IMHO].

 

Anyhow, it was a terrific fireworks display here in Boston last night, and the Boston Pops were splendid. I hope to see the Bonfire Night at Lewes someday!

[Theodore Kloba]

What's with the Dutch Flags? I know old New York was once New Amsterdam, but didn't you say this was Boston?

[Mark Evans]

Anyhow, it was a terrific fireworks display here in Boston last night, and the Boston Pops were splendid.

 

Barbara, you actually went? Such fortitude! The last time I did we only got as far as the BU Bridge and I had to hoist my now 19 year old on my shoulders to see the fireworks. During the following years we took in Newton's fireworks and went up a nice little hill so's the fireworks from Waltham and Boston were visible as well. The crush of humanity on the Esplanade is just to much for me.

Edited July 5, 2006 by Mark Evans

[greenferry]

Barbara, you actually went? Such fortitude! The last time I did we only got as far as the BU Bridge and I had to hoist my now 19 year old on my shoulders to see the fireworks. During the following years we took in Newton's fireworks and went up a nice little hill so's the fireworks from Waltham and Boston were visible as well. The crush of humanity on the Esplanade is just to much for me.

Mark, I watched it on TV! It was great, best view you can get, music loud and clear. I had the background effect of kids in the neighborhood setting off fireworks, too!

[bellowbelle]

Yes, I enjoyed most of the show on TV, too!

 

I don't like our local neighbors setting them off, though. It's woodsy here, and the (illegal?) fireworks are not only a fire hazard, but they scare the local pets and probably disrupt some wildlife, too, which around here can sometimes mean semi-rare birds and such.

 

 

Anyway, the TV show was nice. One reason I didn't see it all is that I took my dog for a drive because he was upset by more local boom-booms!

[m3838]

I wish Americans would learn how to do fireworks by now.

That's something I might be willing to discuss off-Forum.

 

 

Sorry. Can't discuss it. I know next to nothing about them.

However, I must take my words back. Last night's firework was worthy. It was totally packed with salvos.

I'd agree with Jim, I'd do well without the loud ones.

 

My daughter (5) demonstrated perfect demeanor:

When first salvos sounded, she ran towards me screaming: "Papa, papa, I don't want this to be war". Then she tried to hide under light stroller, but it was too tight, then she tried to pull on her hood, like a helmet, then she covered her face and kept still throughout the bombardment. All and all, her gestures were very professional, like a little soldier, trying to find shelter. I was impressed.

But I, old russian militarist, enjoyed the firework greatly. Had to chase away a couple of free spirited couples, demonstrating explicit sexual behavior amidst underage children though.

Edited July 6, 2006 by m3838

[m3838]

On further reflection ,Iagree with you, MrAllert, this thread should be removed. It s got nought to do with concertinas, either.

 

To whom it may concern.

When Americans selebrated Mexico's Independence Day a few months ago, the world seemed to restrain from criticism, despite Mexico's appalling track of human rigthts, poverty and corruption. Never mind the tens of millions (!) Mexicans finding better life in the USA.

But a National Holyday of our Neighbor is a sacred day for them, and as we are still friends, for us.

Some sissy americans, taking all for granted, want to use the benefits of the past, having no responcibility for the past's evils. No, gents and gals, it never worked. The goods of the USA (Canada, Denmark, UK, France, Germany and all others) are interlaced with the bads. As citizens, we must face all, and accept all. 4th of July is not a Bush's BD, nor Clinton's. Not even a F.D.Roosevelt's. Not even (a blasphemy) George Washington's. It's a National Holiday. Don't put it down. You're doing a disservice to yourself, and to the world's community as well. If your own National Holiday doesn't matter, why other National Holidays do? Is that how we build respect?

 

Yes, It does belong here, because we represent many nations, and it is good to wish each other wellness, and what is the best time to do so, if not our National Holiday?

 

Weren't we speaking about Irelands Independence a while back? Weren't many Americans, including blacks and Mexicans, wearing green T-shirts?

 

Bush-Mush, Iraq-Shmiraq. To continue, Tunicia-Shmunicia, Chechnja-Shmechnja, Argentina-Shmargentina,

Kosovo-Shmosovo, Olster-Shmolster.

 

The local events come and go, Nations stay. Respect yourself, otherwise nobody will give you a damn, when you speak about respecting others.

Edited July 6, 2006 by m3838

[Mark Evans]

Michael, you've given me a great chuckle with your discription of the San Francisco fireworks, thank you.

 

And by the way, some freakin' good advice to the rest of us. My fighter pilot old man would be grinning ear to ear were he alive to read your comments.

Edited July 5, 2006 by Mark Evans

[m3838]

/ My fighter pilot old man would be grinning ear to ear were he alive to read your comments./

 

Thank you Mark.

I didn't mean to be smart ass or give advices. Your reply gave me a pause.

I guess by accident I said something worthy.

Thank you with all my heart, keep fond memory of your old man.

[duckln]

I'm not proud of everything that America has ever done, but I am certainly proud of some things that my ancestors have done along the way. P.S. Anyone wishing to discuss current politics, feel free to send me an email or PM, but please don't do it here on-Forum.

 

Nice overal tribute Jim, but it's too bad some had to vent their 'ill' feelings publicly rather than by private

email as you suggested.

 

We again are engaged, again alone, confronting probable 'our' most serious threat ever.

That being the case, chauk me up for supporting this country, way back then and now. When you're

dealing with headchoppers, things will get ugly.

[m3838]

/When you're

dealing with headchoppers, things will get ugly./

 

Agree.

[greenferry]

it's too bad some had to vent their 'ill' feelings publicly rather than by private email

If someone raises an enthusiastic off-topic opinion on the meaning of the Fourth of July, founding fathers and Freedom in America [an inherently political topic] and some members have alternate viewpoints on the topic, all feelings should be tolerated equally, even those with which we do not agree, otherwise it's a discriminatory and exclusionary political discussion. Perhaps it's better to stick to concertinas.

[Woody]

We again are engaged, again alone, confronting probable 'our' most serious threat ever.

 

Alone?????

 

The threat of a relatively small group of psychotic terrorists more serious than say WW2 or the Cuban Missile Crisis?

[Dirge]

Could we just leave this here? There's been a couple of attempts to steer the thread onto safe ground without luck; it's getting heated, it's not going to change anything, it'll just cause dischord and has nothing to do with concertinas or their music.

[JimLucas]

We again are engaged, again alone, confronting probable 'our' most serious threat ever.

Alone?????

 

The threat of a relatively small group of psychotic terrorists more serious than say WW2 or the Cuban Missile Crisis?

Some would say yes.

Some would say no.

Some would object to your putting the Cuban missiles with WWII.

Others may even be wondering what the "Cuban Missile Crisis" is.

 

On such issues, we here on C.net will never be unanimous, nor -- as far as I can tell from the sporadic political comments over the years -- even close to agreement.

 

It's for this reason that I requested in my original post that we not raise our political flags here in the Forum. I thought that the principles I celebrated -- various freedoms (including the freedom to differ), rule of law, laws enacted through representative democracy -- were things we could all agree on.

 

Furthermore, they have always been what I understand America's Independence Day to mean. It was never a rally to support the political factions and leaders of the day, whether that be Prohibition, the New Deal, Joe McCarthy, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Andrew Jackson, or George Washington himself. Instead, it has been, and I hope and believe it still is, a celebration of the founding -- and continued survival -- of the world's first successful democratic nation. And it's the success of that nation, founded on those principles, which I believe has led to the proliferation of democratic governments and personal freedoms throughout Europe and elsewhere in the world.

 

Was my initial post in this thread a "political" intrusion into the Forum? If so, then so is the idea that we should be free to express differences of opinion on any subject. It was deliberately not "partisan" politics. At least I don't think any of the significant parties today -- in any democratic country -- openly opposes the principles of personal freedom, rule of law, or democratic government.

 

Whether you agree or disagree with the current US administration and its policies, whether you approve or disapprove of recent actions -- foreign or domestic -- of the American government, indeed whether you're American or "foreign" shouldn't affect whether you support America's founding principles.

 

The concepts of free expression and equality are, in fact, principles on which this Forum is also founded, and the internet itself. Don't you think that is worth celebrating?

 

Finally, I will say that I do hold very strong opinions on virtually all contemporary political issues, from gay marriage and the Iraq war to continuation of the British monarchy. Some of you know what some of those opinions are, but not from my posts here. I have been very careful to avoid involvement in such contemporary political issues here on C.net, because I believe that they would interfere with our main purpose(s) in being together here. Somehow, I felt that the principles I encouraged us to celebrate on July 4th were of a different, a "higher" nature.

 

I still think so.