Prices

[Theodore Kloba]

Also lets be realistic. These days most people had alot more disposable income than most of the Irish did when alot of what we consider traditional music was getting started.

This is by no means a complete economic analysis, and I don't know what (if anything) it has to do with Ireland, but in my world...

 

Back in 1937, the Patek Music Company in Chicago sold a quadruple reed deluxe instrument for $425

 

Based on the Consumer Price Index, that's equivalent to $5,852 in todays US Dollars.

 

A brand new quadruple reed instrument from Hengel or Echo today will cost about $8,000.

 

In the American market for new Chemnitzers, it seems like it's harder to get a new instrument than it was at least in 1937.

[Daniel Hersh]

But as with the Anglo, you now have the option of an Italian-built one for less money: http://www.brownsmusic.com/acc.html#Concert or http://www.castiglioneaccordions.com/concertinas.html (under "polka concertinas").

 

Daniel

 

Also lets be realistic. These days most people had alot more disposable income than most of the Irish did when alot of what we consider traditional music was getting started.

This is by no means a complete economic analysis, and I don't know what (if anything) it has to do with Ireland, but in my world...

 

Back in 1937, the Patek Music Company in Chicago sold a quadruple reed deluxe instrument for $425

 

Based on the Consumer Price Index, that's equivalent to $5,852 in todays US Dollars.

 

A brand new quadruple reed instrument from Hengel or Echo today will cost about $8,000.

 

In the American market for new Chemnitzers, it seems like it's harder to get a new instrument than it was at least in 1937.

Edited March 15, 2006 by Daniel Hersh

[Theodore Kloba]

But as with the Anglo, you now have the option of an Italian-built one for less money: http://www.brownsmusic.com/acc.html#Concert or http://www.castiglioneaccordions.com/concertinas.html (under "polka concertinas").

And as with the Anglo, you'll be disapponted with how much the Italian instrument weighs and how little it sounds like the old ones.

 

There were less-expensive options in 1937 too. The $3,800 or so you spend on one of the Italian makes now has the same buying power as $276 did in 1937.

 

Back then, for $225-$285, Patek's would have sold you a Triple-reed model which I would take any day over an Italian quad.

[Rhomylly]

So what is a reasonable price (and brand) for a beginner's chemnitzer these days?

[bill_mchale]

Also lets be realistic. These days most people had alot more disposable income than most of the Irish did when alot of what we consider traditional music was getting started.

This is by no means a complete economic analysis, and I don't know what (if anything) it has to do with Ireland, but in my world...

 

Back in 1937, the Patek Music Company in Chicago sold a quadruple reed deluxe instrument for $425

 

Based on the Consumer Price Index, that's equivalent to $5,852 in todays US Dollars.

 

A brand new quadruple reed instrument from Hengel or Echo today will cost about $8,000.

 

In the American market for new Chemnitzers, it seems like it's harder to get a new instrument than it was at least in 1937.

 

Theodore,

No offense, but you are not actually trying to argue that when adjusted for inflation people had more disposable income during the Great Depression are you? The prices of luxury items (as Musical instruments undoubtedly are) usually stays lower during periods of economic distress. After all when you are worried about whether you will be able to keep your family in food and clothes, buying musical instruments is not high on your priority. Thus the market for luxury items shrinks far more during a depression than the market for more necessary commodities.

 

As for Ireland, it has to do with the fact that we were discussing the idea that vintage concertinas are out of reach for many in Ireland who are trying to get started in Irish Music. That being said with respects to Ireland, and the development of Irish Traditional Music, I don't think there is any serious doubt that during the 19th and for much of the 20th centuries the Irish as a whole could only be considered poor. My Dad grew up in Ireland during the Depression and WWII and while they were able to provide food, shelter and clothing, they usually didn't have much beyond that. My Mom grew up in the 50s and 60s and while she had it somewhat better, it was dramatically better. From listening to alot of their friends I think it is not unfair to conclude that what we would consider poverty was the norm in Ireland.

 

--

Bill

[Theodore Kloba]

So what is a reasonable price (and brand) for a beginner's chemnitzer these days?

I think the only reasonable beginners' instruments out there are used ones. The $2,000 you'd spend on the Castiglione "Model 10" could buy a lot in a used instrument.

 

As far as "brands" go, one might get lucky (as our Dan Hersh recently did) and get a good old German one that's playable and in tune. They are hard to find in good shape.

 

Although they will cost more, I'd recommend one of the solid American makes like Star, Patek, Pearl Queen, Glass Bros, as long as it has an aluminum action. Older instruments with wooden actions can be as much of a gamble as the German ones.

 

Depending on features, about the least you'll spend for something playable and in tune is $500.

[Theodore Kloba]

No offense, but you are not actually trying to argue that when adjusted for inflation people had more disposable income during the Great Depression are you?

Actually, no... That's why I introduced by stating that I wasn't presenting a proper economic analysis. I was just playing with the inflation calculator and looking at the relative value of a dollar. It does take more "buying power" to get a new instrument now than it did in 1937.

The prices of luxury items (as Musical instruments undoubtedly are) usually stays lower during periods of economic distress. After all when you are worried about whether you will be able to keep your family in food and clothes, buying musical instruments is not high on your priority. Thus the market for luxury items shrinks far more during a depression than the market for more necessary commodities.

But, as far as disposable income in the US, consider recent reports that our "savings rate" in 2005 reached its lowest level since 1933. Of course, that could simply mean that we're overspending.

 

Again, I won't claim to know anything about Ireland that I didn't learn from one of Frank McCourt's memoirs.

[bill_mchale]

No offense, but you are not actually trying to argue that when adjusted for inflation people had more disposable income during the Great Depression are you?

Actually, no... That's why I introduced by stating that I wasn't presenting a proper economic analysis. I was just playing with the inflation calculator and looking at the relative value of a dollar. It does take more "buying power" to get a new instrument now than it did in 1937.

 

 

Yes it does take more buying power, but in general, incomes have increased faster than inflation over the years following the great depression (There were exceptions like the stagflation of the 70s and early 80s but they do appear to have been the exception).

 

In general I would be willing to bet that people (at least in the US) are spending a larger percentage of their incomes on non-essentials now than at any point in history.

 

The prices of luxury items (as Musical instruments undoubtedly are) usually stays lower during periods of economic distress. After all when you are worried about whether you will be able to keep your family in food and clothes, buying musical instruments is not high on your priority. Thus the market for luxury items shrinks far more during a depression than the market for more necessary commodities.

But, as far as disposable income in the US, consider recent reports that our "savings rate" in 2005 reached its lowest level since 1933. Of course, that could simply mean that we're overspending.

 

Savings rate only really measures how much disposible income we decide to save for a rainy day it doesn't measure how much disposible income we actually have. Certainly no one is going to argue that the country was stronger economically in 1933 than it is today.

 

Again, I won't claim to know anything about Ireland that I didn't learn from one of Frank McCourt's memoirs.

 

And that of course is the thing, this whole discussion got started because we were discussing about the price and availability of Concertinas in Ireland.

 

--

Bill

[Mike Pierceall]

Also lets be realistic. These days most people had alot more disposable income than most of the Irish did when alot of what we consider traditional music was getting started.

This is by no means a complete economic analysis, and I don't know what (if anything) it has to do with Ireland, but in my world...

 

Back in 1937, the Patek Music Company in Chicago sold a quadruple reed deluxe instrument for $425

 

Based on the Consumer Price Index, that's equivalent to $5,852 in todays US Dollars.

 

A brand new quadruple reed instrument from Hengel or Echo today will cost about $8,000.

 

In the American market for new Chemnitzers, it seems like it's harder to get a new instrument than it was at least in 1937.

Theodore, In the past there were more craftsman with the skills to create these wonderful things. Perhaps the question to ask is this: What is the intrinsic value of the instrument? I believe that after all is said and done, they are still very valuable instruments, even without the effects of supply and demand. Mike

[Mark Evans]

 

In general I would be willing to bet that people (at least in the US) are spending a larger percentage of their incomes on non-essentials now than at any point in history.

 

There is the heart of it Bill. For most of us concertina and non-essential are not terms used in the same breath.!

 

 

 

Again, I won't claim to know anything about Ireland that I didn't learn from one of Frank McCourt's memoirs.

 

My poor wife was in Limerick on a gig summer before last and made the mistake of refering to McCourt in conversation with a cab driver. Boy did she get an ear full! The Cabbie wasn't mean or anything but certainly had strong opinions on the author and the details of his, memoir? What would Opra say?

Edited March 16, 2006 by Mark Evans

[bill_mchale]

 

In general I would be willing to bet that people (at least in the US) are spending a larger percentage of their incomes on non-essentials now than at any point in history.

 

There is the heart of it Bill. For most of us concertina and non-essential are not terms used in the same breath.!

 

Well this is true.. but in reality we would, at least I hope we would, give up the concertina if it meant the difference between keeping our families in a home and in clothes. I will admit that life may not be worth living without the concertina... .

 

 

Again, I won't claim to know anything about Ireland that I didn't learn from one of Frank McCourt's memoirs.

 

My poor wife was in Limerick on a gig summer before last and made the mistake of refering to McCourt in conversation with a cab driver. Boy did she get an ear full! The Cabbie wasn't mean or anything but certainly had strong opinions on the author and the details of his, memoir? What would Opra say?

 

No doubt about it, McCourt definitely embilished. Certainly listening to my parents talk about their experiences growing up in Ireland (And my Dad is roughly contemporary to McCourt) you don't get the idea that life was all that bad. In fact some parts of it seemed quite nice. But no matter how you look at it, by modern standards mid 20th century Ireland was poor.

 

--

Bill