Please Help

[louise]

HI ALL JUST FOUND YOUR WEBSITE I WISH I HAD FOUND IT A FEW DAYS AGO...

I HAVE RECENTLY INHERITED A CONCERTINA FROM MY GREAT UNCLE AND

DID NOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT THEM AND HIM BEING THE ONLY MUSICIAN

IN THE FAMILY DID NOT KNOW HOW TO GO ABOUT SELLING IT...SO WITH

THE MODERN WONDERS OF E BAY I LISTED IT YESTERDAY.....I JUST WONDERED

IF ANYONE COULD HELP ME TO KNOW WHAT A REASONABLE PRICE FOR IT WOULD BE

IT IS A WHEATSTONE CONCERTINA....AND IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION

IT HAS 7 BELLOWS AND IT HAS 48 KEYS.AND THE ORIGIONAL BOX

..MY GREAT UNCLE HAD THIS MADE TO MEASURE AROUND 1939 IT ALSO HAS THE SERIAL NUMBER

ON IT.....ANYONE WHO WANTS TO LOOK AT THE PHOTOS TO HELP JUDGE THE CONDITION CAN LOOK

ON E BAY......I JUST WONDERED NOT KNOWING A LOT ABOUT CONCERTINAS IS THIS A SORT AFTER INSTRUMENT

[JimLucas]

...WITH

THE MODERN WONDERS OF E BAY I LISTED IT YESTERDAY.....

I searched eBay and didn't find anything fitting your description. Could you help us with a link or item number on eBay?

[wakasaobama]

Is this one?

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WHEATSTONE-ACCORDIAN...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

wakasaobama

Edited January 9, 2006 by wakasaobama

[Robert Gaskins]

I believe the problem in finding this instrument is that it is only

listed on eBay UK. There is an easy way to find eBay auctions

worldwide, no matter where you are located:

 

Worldwide eBay Listings for Concertinas

 

This page returns the results of searches on 16 eBay sites all

around the world--US, UK, Ireland, Australia, plus Canada and all

the European sites, India, China, Taiwan, etc.

 

By default it returns results for concertinas, but you can adjust

the settings to search any one or more eBay national sites for

anything. Clicking on any result opens the page on the eBay site

in the normal way.

[louise]

hi all sorry about the confusion with looking at it on e bay i am in the uk

i also dont normally use chat forums ...so sorry for any mistakes!!

even though im only in my twenties im not that good with computers!!!!

the item number under e bay . co .uk is ( 7380566856 )

Edited January 9, 2006 by louise

[Greg Jowaisas]

Hi Louise,

 

You can find your uncle's concertina in the Wheatstone ledgers by going to the Horniman Museum website:

http://www.horniman.info/

 

Look under the Dickenson section of the Wheatstone ledgers.

 

The concertina is an Aeola which was among Wheatstones best models. 1933, which is when your concertina appears in the ledgers, was during a transition period for Wheatstone. They were in the process of buying out another company, Lachenal, and would incorperate some of Lachenal's features in their concertinas.

 

One of the big differences between the companies was the action mechanism which connects the buttons on the outside of the concertina to the pads inside the ends. Wheatstone used a lever that was rivetted to a post; Lachenal had a lever arm go through a rectangular frame. Another way of describing the difference is:

rivetted vs hook and arm.

 

I have a Wheatstone anglo concertina from 1934 and it has Wheatstone's adaption of the hook and arm arrangement.

 

It would be interesting to see which arm system they used in your concertina.

 

Regardless of what kind of action your concertina has, it is a quality instrument built by a prestigious company. It would probably cost in excess of 1500 British pounds to buy a concertina of similar quality

today.

 

Are you sure you and your family want to sell such a musical teasure? Is there no one who would like to take the musical journey and learn how to play?

 

Regards,

 

Greg

Edited January 9, 2006 by Greg Jowaisas

[Mike Pierceall]

Hi Louise,

 

You can find your uncle's concertina in the Wheatstone ledgers by going to the Horniman Museum website:

http://www.horniman.info/

 

Look under the Dickenson section of the Wheatstone ledgers.

 

The concertina is an Aeola which was among Wheatstones best models. 1933, which is when your concertina appears in the ledgers, was during a transition period for Wheatstone. They were in the process of buying out another company, Lachenal, and would incorperate some of Lachenal's features in their concertinas.

 

One of the big differences between the companies was the action mechanism which connects the buttons on the outside of the concertina to the pads inside the ends. Wheatstone used a lever that was rivetted to a post; Lachenal had a lever arm go through a rectangular frame. Another way of describing the difference is:

rivetted vs hook and arm.

 

I have a Wheatstone anglo concertina from 1934 and it has Wheatstone's adaption of the hook and arm arrangement.

 

It would be interesting to see which arm system they used in your concertina.

 

Regardless of what kind of action your concertina has, it is a quality instrument built by a prestigious company. It would probably cost in excess of 1500 British pounds to buy a concertina of similar quality

today.

 

Are you sure you and your family want to sell such a musical teasure? Is there no one who would like to take the musical journey and learn how to play?

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Greg,

 

A 48 button tenor treble, as I believe this instrument is, would be tuned 4 notes lower than a treble, from tenor C to F above the 3rd ledger line, is that correct?

[JimLucas]

A 48 button tenor treble, as I believe this instrument is, would be tuned 4 notes lower than a treble, from tenor C to F above the 3rd ledger line, is that correct?

If it's the lower range (down to C below middle C) and only 48 buttons, then I think it should just be called a "tenor", not a "tenor-treble". The range you quote is right for a tenor, but I don't see anything to indicate that this instrument is other than a treble Æola. Michael, do you have information I don't? The size is standard for a treble Æola. Also:

... It's a model 17a. The price lists I have handy don't have a 17a, but they all list model 17 as a 48-button treble Æola.

... Trebles extending upward are models 18 (56 buttons), 18a (60 buttons), and 18b (64 buttons).

... "Tenor-treble", i.e., a treble extending downward to the tenor range is model 19 (56 buttons) or 19a (64 buttons, thus also extending upward to cover the range of the model 18).

 

What is unusual about this instrument is the 7-fold bellows.

[Greg Jowaisas]

Michaelpier,

 

I see that more experienced people are already at work on this. Yes, a tenor would be 4 notes lower than a treble, and with 48 buttons it would have 4 notes less than a treble at the high end.

 

I will repeat Jim's question and ask why you think it is a tenor?

 

For thoose of you who would like a look at the instrument in question here is a link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

 

Perhaps the 7 fold bellows could point in that direction and I wonder about the 6 & 3/4 measurement which is slightly (3/8 of an inch) larger than another model 17 Aeola that I am familiar with. That they would record the 6 & 3/4 in the ledger is interesting.

 

Is it just me, the photo angle, or does anyone else get the feeling that the horizontal in the pictures are a bit longer than the vertical?

 

If Louise can determine the lowest note on her concertina and let us know, then we can lay all speculation to rest.

 

Greg

Edited January 9, 2006 by Greg Jowaisas

[louise]

HI ALL THANKS FOR ALL OF YOUR INFORMATION SOME OF IT...FASCINATING

WELL ACTUALLY ALL OF IT FASCINATING BUT SOME OF IT BAFFLING....

COULD THE DIFFERING MEASUREMENT BE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE

WIDTH SPAN OF THE HANDS OF THE PLAYER....THIS MAY SOUND DAFT

BUT MY GREAT UNCLE WAS A VERY TALL MAN WITH HUGE HANDS

AND NOT BEING MUSICAL MYSELF NOT KNOWING BUT I WOULD ASSUME THIS WOULD

MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO A CONCERTINA PLAYER.....MAYBE YOU ALL CAN ENLIGHTEN ME FURTHUR

[JimLucas]

Perhaps the 7 fold bellows could point in that direction and I wonder about the 6 & 3/4 measurement which is slightly (3/8 of an inch) larger than another model 17 Aeola that I am familiar with.

A point I overlooked. I was thinking that was standard, but my treble Æola is 6½"; it's the Edeophone with its rounder shape that's 6-3/4".

 

That they would record the 6 & 3/4 in the ledger is interesting.

Except that what they did and didn't record in the ledgers tends to be pretty inconsistent. E.g., sometimes -- but not always -- noting 48 buttons on instruments for which 48 buttons would be standard, yet "special" apparently could mean anything from a special finish to a unique keyboard layout. And the recorded button count on duets included the air button, but on anglos and Englishes it didn't.

[Mike Pierceall]

Michaelpier,

 

I see that more experienced people are already at work on this. Yes, a tenor would be 4 notes lower than a treble, and with 48 buttons it would have 4 notes less than a treble at the high end.

 

I will repeat Jim's question and ask why you think it is a tenor?

 

For thoose of you who would like a look at the instrument in question here is a link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

 

Perhaps the 7 fold bellows could point in that direction and I wonder about the 6 & 3/4 measurement which is slightly (3/8 of an inch) larger than another model 17 Aeola that I am familiar with. That they would record the 6 & 3/4 in the ledger is interesting.

 

Is it just me, the photo angle, or does anyone else get the feeling that the horizontal in the pictures are a bit longer than the vertical?

 

If Louise can determine the lowest note on her concertina and let us know, then we can lay all speculation to rest.

 

Greg

 

 

Greg, There is a price list for Aeolas, ca 1930, on Chris Algars Archives, which lists the 17A separate from the 17. The 17A is listed under "Tenor-Trebles." That info is handwritten, however. It also says, "48 keys from Tenor C to F above 3rd ledger line."

 

Mike

[Mike Pierceall]

A 48 button tenor treble, as I believe this instrument is, would be tuned 4 notes lower than a treble, from tenor C to F above the 3rd ledger line, is that correct?

If it's the lower range (down to C below middle C) and only 48 buttons, then I think it should just be called a "tenor", not a "tenor-treble". The range you quote is right for a tenor, but I don't see anything to indicate that this instrument is other than a treble Æola. Michael, do you have information I don't? The size is standard for a treble Æola. Also:

... It's a model 17a. The price lists I have handy don't have a 17a, but they all list model 17 as a 48-button treble Æola.

... Trebles extending upward are models 18 (56 buttons), 18a (60 buttons), and 18b (64 buttons).

... "Tenor-treble", i.e., a treble extending downward to the tenor range is model 19 (56 buttons) or 19a (64 buttons, thus also extending upward to cover the range of the model 18).

 

What is unusual about this instrument is the 7-fold bellows.

 

Jim,

 

In Chris Algars archives, the 1931 Wheatstone price list, page 4, lists a model "17a" Aeola under the "Tenor-Trebles" category. "48 keys, from Tenor C to F, above 3rd ledger line." The regular model 17 is listed on the same price list under "Trebles." I knew that there was a handwritten notation on an earlier price list, with the same information, but then I found the later pricelist with the formal listing of the model number.

I think Louise's Aeola is a tenor. I can't explain the seven-fold bellows, though. Mike.

[JimLucas]

In Chris Algars archives, the 1931 Wheatstone price list, page 4, lists a model "17a" Aeola under the "Tenor-Trebles" category. "48 keys, from Tenor C to F, above 3rd ledger line." The regular model 17 is listed on the same price list under "Trebles." I knew that there was a handwritten notation on an earlier price list, with the same information, but then I found the later pricelist with the formal listing of the model number.

I think Louise's Aeola is a tenor.

Good research. Thanks.

 

I guess it is what I would call a "tenor", though confirmation of the range from Louise (surely she has a friend who knows enough music to be able to tell her) would be nice. And maybe the Wheatstone folks in that period didn't bother to distinguish between "tenor" and "tenor-treble", though I believe they did often make such distinctions in the ledgers, at least in earlier times. (Or maybe I'm wrong, and "tenor" in the ledgers meant something else? But then what?)

 

I can't explain the seven-fold bellows, though.

That's easy. Louise said, "...my great uncle had this made to measure...." That implies he requested something special when it was built, and the bellows looks like it. Well, that and the fact that it was a 17a.

 

Tenors with only 48 buttons -- rather than the 56 or more of a tenor-treble (as I know the terms) -- are relatively rare. And this 17a is certainly smaller than the 7½" standard size of t-t's. I suspect it will bring a fair price.

[John Wild]

I can't explain the seven-fold bellows, though. Mike.

 

Could they have been replaced at some time? My Lachenal Edeophone has 7-fold bellows, but was originally built with 5.

 

- John Wild

[Mike Pierceall]

I can't explain the seven-fold bellows, though. Mike.

 

Could they have been replaced at some time? My Lachenal Edeophone has 7-fold bellows, but was originally built with 5.

 

- John Wild

 

John,

 

Yes, replaced, or, as Jim Lucas suggested, made to order. It's not noted in the ledger entry. I would think Louise's uncle was already an accomplished player to special order a variant. Perhaps Louise can answer that. Mike.

[louise]

hi all i may be able to add a little more info about my great uncles concertina up for auction on e aby a man came to view it today and apparently it is a whaetstone aeola...and it is a tenor treble he says this explains the unusual layout of the lower notes....hope this explains some questions for you all many thanks to you all for your interest and information on this one ...louise