abbreviations in wheatstone ledgers

[Liraman]

Hi, I am a musician helping a friend here in Sweden to correctly date a Wheatstone English Concertina. 

My question is about abbreviations. What does ”N P” stand for? See the attachment.

Best regards

JanW

[John Wild]

Nickel-plated

[Liraman]

5 minutes ago, John Wild said:

Nickel-plated

Great - thanks! I was afraid it was for plannef but never produced, ie  instruments that never made it

[LR71]

I found my 30 button 1936 anglo - I was interested to see that it's a week older than my mother, RIP.  On its entry it says 55|R.  Rosewood, I assume, was 55 the sales price?

 

Why doesn't the ledger page have an index for all these terms?  

[Stephen Chambers]

4 hours ago, LR71 said:

I found my 30 button 1936 anglo - I was interested to see that it's a week older than my mother, RIP.  On its entry it says 55|R.  Rosewood, I assume, was 55 the sales price?  

 

It's not the price, which was only £8 .. 10s on a late-1920's Wheatstone price list that I have, but No. 55 was the model number for Wheatstone's 30-key rosewood-ended (mid-price range) Anglos.

 

Quote

Why doesn't the ledger page have an index for all these terms?

 

The ledgers were only factory records, kept by staff who knew what the model numbers and abbreviations meant, whilst we're still working out what they all signified today...

 

[LR71]

I figured 55 shillings would be off the mark.  Sounds like documenting what all these codes are would make for a worthy collaborative project here.  

[Stephen Chambers]

1 hour ago, LR71 said:

Sounds like documenting what all these codes are would make for a worthy collaborative project here.  

 

The codes themselves are no secret and can be found online in the Wheatstone Concertina Pricelists.

 

There was a collaborative effort on here with the ledger description abbreviations years ago (I'll try and find it), but even the Wheatstone workers weren't always consistent in their descriptions.

[LR71]

I'm still confused, the only pricelists close to my 1936 are from 1910/1947 and just mention Class A or Class 4A, nothing about 55/R.

[Stephen Chambers]

8 hours ago, LR71 said:

I'm still confused, the only pricelists close to my 1936 are from 1910/1947 and just mention Class A or Class 4A, nothing about 55/R.

 

I was forgetting that there's such a gap in the Anglo price lists there, but I'm fortunate enough to have THREE of them (2 originals and a photocopy) from the inter-war years.

 

But any Wheatstone price lists are very rare, and especially the Anglo ones.

 

I'll scan one and post it here.

 

Only, of course, it would be a huge help if you'd provided the serial number, so I could see the actual ledger entry that you're trying to interpret/enquiring about. But, looking at the entries for nos. 33991-4 in January 1936 it's evident that 55 is in the column for model numbers, and R (for rosewood ends) and "30 Keys" are in the description column, whilst though 33997-9 are also shown as No. 55, they are described as N - the nickel-ended version of the same model.

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Stephen Chambers
Edited to add final paragraph.

[LR71]

Mine is 34305.  I'm truly puzzled why the ledgers website doesn't have every scrap of info in the world by now...

[Stephen Chambers]

5 hours ago, LR71 said:

Mine is 34305.  I'm truly puzzled why the ledgers website doesn't have every scrap of info in the world by now...

 

You'd best take that up with the Horniman Museum, but it's a lifetime's study.

 

Meanwhile, the entry for 34305 reveals very little except that it's a 30-key with rosewood ends (but you knew that already) and that it appears to have been one of a batch of Anglos that were started on 22nd October 1936, and completed on 27th October that year (4 days before my father's 16th birthday).

 

Here's the 1929 Price List:

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Stephen Chambers

[LR71]

Thanks, Stephen.  The LINOTA stamp on mine is hard to read, on others I imagine it's barely visible by now.   I hadn't even bothered to check - I figured Linotas all had metal ends.  I was interested to see a comment from you in 2004 that 

 

Quote

The prices, and models, changed very little in the period we are talking about (they didn't have the kind of inflation we now take for granted), but cheaper construction/materials started to be used from about 1936 onwards.

I wonder if mine is from this subpar era.  I certainly like its sound, but it's kind of a chore to play, despite having a replacement action.

 

On page 1 of that 19 year old thread you typed out a price list with the model numbers; these Horniman folks should really hang around here more!

[iconstab]

"NP Black SV WS"

I understand the Nickel Plated and Steel Vibrators, but WS ?

I'll probably kick myself ...

[iconstab]

Yes, it is Wrist Strap, of course.

[Stephen Chambers]

13 hours ago, iconstab said:

"NP Black SV WS"

I understand the Nickel Plated and Steel Vibrators, but WS ?

I'll probably kick myself ...

 

SV is for "single valve", meaning a single lever-type wind key and WS is for "wrist straps".

 

You can see an earlier discussion of this topic here.

[4to5to6]

BV - Bowing valve

DV - Double valve

SV - Single Valve (Slide Valve)

KV - Key Valve

 

it’s interesting to note that the fretwork of most SV concertinas also has the small SV cutout on the opposite side (both sides) wether it is used or not.

 

Has anyone ever been able to “bow” their concertina?  I’ve read the patent but it seems more of a marketing gimmick than something usable.

 

I tend to prefer KV on the English but SV has never been a deal breaker.

.

Edited October 7, 2023 by 4to5to6