Opinions Of Jackie

[floridapiper]

Well as a retired highland and uilleann piper who wants to suffer <G> learning a new instrument I am narrowing down to a Jackie English 30. I enjoy traditional Irish jigs and reels and such and am advised English style vs Anglo to learn. So my question is what is the general opinion of the Jackie with price and quality?

Thanks, Dave

[floridapiper]

Well as a retired highland and uilleann piper who wants to suffer <G> learning a new instrument I am narrowing down to a Jackie English 30.  I enjoy traditional Irish jigs and reels and such and am advised English style vs Anglo to learn.  So my question is what is the general opinion of the Jackie with price and quality?

Thanks,  Dave

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I suppose I should also solicit opinions of English vs Anglo based on my music tastes. Solo player with celtic leanings .

[Henk van Aalten]

Well as a retired highland and uilleann piper who wants to suffer <G> learning a new instrument I am narrowing down to a Jackie English 30.  I enjoy traditional Irish jigs and reels and such and am advised English style vs Anglo to learn.  So my question is what is the general opinion of the Jackie with price and quality?

Thanks,  Dave

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Dave

 

The Jackie is good value for your money, but why are you advised the EC instead of the Anglo? Most concertina playing in traditional Irish music is done with the Anglo. There are of course a few exceptions, but looking at ITM concertina CD's all the well known names use the anglo: Noel Hill, Mary MacNamara, Tim Collins etc.

On the other hand at the price level of the Jackie, you will not easily find an Anglo with the same quality.

[johnobuttons]

I enjoy traditional Irish jigs and reels and such and am advised English style vs Anglo to learn.

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

 

I play Irish music on the Anglo concertina. You will find a world of other Anglo players and styles of playing Irish music on the Anglo. Before playing Anglo, I played English. I had to give up the English due to nasty problems with my little fingers, caused by the weight of the concertina on the little finger rests for the little fingers.

 

Once I learned Anglo, I was totally convinced it is the better instrument for Irish. The difference has to do with the ability to put rhythmic emphasis on the music due to the bellows direction changes. I think that this is not just a matter of changing bellow directions, but also due to the firmer grip of the instrument created by having straps around the wrist. The firmer grip allows the required rapid bellow changes.

 

I would recommend that you listen to recordings by players of the two systems. Unfortunately there are not many Irish music recordings on the English, but you can listen to Alistair Anderson play although his music is not Irish. The general sound of an english is smooth. The general sound of an Irish is staccato. The person who does play Irish music on English concertina is Joel Bernstein who resides in Seattle. I'm not sure if there are any recondings of his music.

 

John

[Sandy Winters]

Joel Bernstein can be heard on 'Pigtown Fling', a CD of him and Randal Bays. Most of the tracks have Joel playing harmonica but there are few tracks with him playing english concertina.

[brightfield]

Well as a retired highland and uilleann piper who wants to suffer <G> learning a new instrument I am narrowing down to a Jackie English 30.  I enjoy traditional Irish jigs and reels and such and am advised English style vs Anglo to learn.  So my question is what is the general opinion of the Jackie with price and quality?

Thanks,  Dave

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I returned to the 'tina after many years concentrating on guitar. I decided to buy a Jackie to see how I got on, and in no time at all I was looking for an antique instrument (I now have a Lachenal as well).

 

The Jackie English seems to me to be an excellent instrument to start off with - my only complaint would be that it is a bit on the large side! The Lachenal is much lighter in weight and I suspect that the Jackie might tend towards strain on the little finger owing to its weight - having said that, I don't have trouble in that department.

 

I prefer the English system, but that could be that I read from music and like to dabble in playing funny stuff like Bach violin music as well as all the folk tunes. I suspect that the English system is better for more formal music because while the Anglo can give a fantastically energetic and lively style beyond the capability of the English, I do believe that the English system is better for anyone who's interested in phrasing and even tone.

 

I learned to play the English about 20 years ago and as I've come back to it, I find it to have a very logical layout which is quite easy to learn and very versatile.

Edited March 24, 2005 by brightfield

[Mark Evans]

Give David Paton a listen on EC in Irish rep. No, it will not achieve the anglo "bounce", nor should it. Also listen, if you can find the two recordings of Grey Larson before he switched from EC to AC (going back 25 years). They were with Malcom Danglish (sp I'm sure). Their work was very smoothe and beautiful which Gray managed to turn around and replicate with his D/A Wheatsone (I was the proud owner of his Wheatstone EC after the switch).

 

Two hammered dulcimer players I recently encountered smiled warmly when they saw me pull out the EC and request Banish Misfortune. Grey and Malcom set the gold standard for me with their rendition and it seems for a number of dulcimer players who have seen a similar number of winters as well.

 

It's not the same beast (AC/EC). Listen to any two fiddlers, say Kevin Burke vs. Michael Kelly. Hum. The issue has been at times hotly debated here.

 

I suggest you put your hands to both EC and AC. One will be "right" with how your head works I have no doubt right from the get go. Then, go get the one that works and have some F_U_N!

[otsaku]

I know from reading the site that ec vs ac is a touchy subject at times.

 

I've also read the reasoning behind the why the anglo is better suited to irish traditional music...

 

I'm just not sure if the arguement for and against has anything to do with the instruments or more to do with the talented individuals playing them.

 

 

( Opens mouth wide and gets ready to place foot in it... )

 

Clefs, staves, notes, intervals and all that jazz - it's music. Wether learnt by ear or read from a page the building blocks for a tune are the same.

Admittedly I'm struggling with ornamentation and rythm on the jackie but at the same time I'm not musically gifted and I'm a newcomer to the instrument.

 

Whilst shopping around for a concertina I had a music shop tell me that I shouldn't get an english if I wanted to play irish music. Shortly after getting the jackie Jim Lucas came round and played a very lively version of morrisons jig on his ec.

 

Funnily enough morrisons has been giving me trouble on the whistle and now is giving me trouble on the ec this being my lack of aptitude and not anything to do with the instrument.

 

Its wonderful there is a tradition of using the anglo in irish music but is this tradition why there is an arguement against the english?

 

After his rendition of morrisons Jim went on to demonstrate "anglo" playing on his ec...

 

I hope I'm not getting anyone's back up with my little contribution but reading some of the past posts on the subject I'm wondering if we aren't rallying round our respective flags because we need to have a flag to rally around.

 

 

On the subject of the jackie - it's a great instrument, the ec exceeded my expectations in terms of being a logical and relatively easy instrument to get started on.

 

Yes I've just acquired a lachenal 48 key but I don't see myself getting rid of or stopping playing my jackie. And yes I'm looking for an anglo but then again I have high whistles, low whistles, electric and acoustic guitars, a recorder, a mandolin and a bohdran.

 

Listen ofcourse to the advice of the more experienced members, they do know what they are talking about.

 

pssst buy a jackie you'll love it

[geoffwright]

I think it depends on how quick a learner you are - if you are quick, you might soon outgrow a 30 key english and find them limiting.

Make a price comparison between a Jackie and a good second-hand one (that has been overhauled).

[Mark Evans]

I know from reading the site that ec vs ac is a touchy subject at times.

 

Yup! It's been hashed and re-hashed right here ad infinitum. Had it been a bunch of EC that came over ta' Erin's green shores in the 1860's there'd be bloodletting in t'other direction.

 

Seems the vitriol over the subject has lessened here (that's all I care about).

 

Again for Dave, find out what works wid' yer noggin'. I came ta' dance wid the Anglo (I did love 'er...I swear) an' went home wid' de dreaded English. Plenty done de' reverse.

[floridapiper]

Well as a retired highland and uilleann piper who wants to suffer <G> learning a new instrument I am narrowing down to a Jackie English 30.  I enjoy traditional Irish jigs and reels and such and am advised English style vs Anglo to learn.  So my question is what is the general opinion of the Jackie with price and quality?

Thanks,  Dave

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you all for such great responses and information. I now am even more befuddled. I get the idea that the Jackie is a good value and appropriate for my novice start....but it is English and I find that the Anglo is much more popular....Wish Jackie made an Anglo version. So I think I will continue studies and searche. Now....what about the two different fingerings of Anglo I just found out about....comments ??? Jeffries vs Lachenal ? comments please..

 

Cheers ! Dave

[sourdoh]

Hello Dave, and welcome,

Since no one else has mentioned it yet, I suggest talking to The Button Box about renting (a link is on the links page). This will give you a chance to try both types of concertina and decide which is right for you without laying out a full purchase price. It will also give you some instruments to use as comparisons when you try others.

- Keith

[Greg Jowaisas]

From floridapiper's name I'm guessing he may live in the same state as his moniker. If so it might be illuminating to look up some of cnet's sunshine state alumni. I'm thinking of Daniel Bradbury in the Tampa area and Paul Groff in Miami. Either of those fine musicians, and in Paul's case, also teacher, instrument dealer, could give you some wonderful insights into how they play and how to make good music on a concertina. (And there are some others in Florida who might also be of help.)

 

If floridapiper lives elsewhere there may be other resources in his area.

 

Sometimes choosing an instrument can come down to practical support. By this I mean local resources. If I lived next to Noel Hill I would get an anglo and pester him for lessons. And if Alistair Anderson lived close by I'd concentrate on english concertina. You might want to check around your area and consider who might be able to aid in your musical adventures and that might influence your decision.

 

Best of luck,

 

Greg

 

(Edited for sp. and fuzzy "thinkining".

Edited March 25, 2005 by Greg Jowaisas

[david dufficy]

I had heard from the Concertina Connection that they will be introducing an anglo version of the Jackie which will be a 30 key instrument. Perhaps by late spring or this summer.

Dave

[Henk van Aalten]

In this thread there are quite some announcements from Concertina Connection.

Unfortunately I do not read anything about an Anglo that is comparable with the Jackie

 

We [Concertina Connection] also have a few new instruments coming out this year.  Starting at the ‘entry level’, I am working on a baritone Jackie.  If every thing goes according to plan, the first instruments will be available in (late) March.  The price will be about the same as the treble Jackie.  The instrument will also be available through our dealers.

 

The next instrument that is almost finished (finally), is our MIDI English concertina. We are almost done testing the prototype, which seems to work perfectly. The instrument can be hooked up to a computer or synthesizer/keyboard etc. 

 

The quality of the MIDI english is comparable to the Geuns-Wakker concertinas (all leather bellows, french polished ends, traditional metal keys with wooden core (wheatstone type), but will be priced (much) lower.   

The instrument plays like a normal concertina, with normal bellows action, just like on a traditional ‘reeded’ concertina.

The midi connection will (probably) be wireless. The instrument is aimed at concertina players, rather than MIDI technicians. That is why it has preset functions like a performance (single channel) and layered switch, an octave switch (changes the instrument from sub bass, bass, baritone, treble to soprano) etc..  Production starts in March. The first series will probably be available in May/June.

We hope to finish a comparable anglo model a little later this year.

 

The Geuns-Wakker concertinas (a joint venture between Harry Geuns and the Concertina Connection) are all updated: new design and different reeds: more amplitude, faster... The first orders (anglo) will be finished late (fall) of 2004.

 

Wim Wakker

Concertina Connection.

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[floridapiper]

Well as a retired highland and uilleann piper who wants to suffer <G> learning a new instrument I am narrowing down to a Jackie English 30.  I enjoy traditional Irish jigs and reels and such and am advised English style vs Anglo to learn.  So my question is what is the general opinion of the Jackie with price and quality?

Thanks,  Dave

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As you all probably may have guessed my thought processes are evolving rapidly based on the information I am receiving from all sources. Still in a quandry but am firming up my direction. However, I want to make one comment about the group of people who visit and take time to post messages for newbies like me.

I have seldom encountered a group of people who are willing to share and help like the folks here who have posted and emailed me with advice, comments and just support. I sincerely thank you all. And yes I am in central Florida.

 

Cheers !

Dave

[floridapiper]

Hello Dave, and welcome,

Since no one else has mentioned it yet, I suggest talking to The Button Box about renting (a link is on the links page). This will give you a chance to try both types of concertina and decide which is right for you without laying out a full purchase price. It will also give you some instruments to use as comparisons when you try others.

- Keith

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Keith a good idea and thanks, However Button Box doesn't have any available at this time. Am looking in Florida closer to home

[david dufficy]

Henk, the information came in a note from the Concertina Connection after I sent a note to them asking about making an anglo version. It will be called the Rochelle if I remember correctly and be 30 key.

Dave