Fingering consecutive notes on F# & C# (English system)

[Kenglish]

I posted the text below elsewhere. However, I thought that it might attract further discussion by being posted on its own. It concerns the question of whether to finger consecutive notes on C# and F# on the English concertina using fingers 1 & 2 or 2 & 3 (two-finger rolls by Simon Thoumire's terminology ?).

 

In a jig on the English moving across to the lower F# on the right, for example, the two-finger roll technique to play a triplet (three consecutive notes on the same button) implies using fingers 1 & 2 all the time, yet this requires one to travel quite some way across the finger board. I've given a sample. It's a decoration, of course, but one that I wish to conquer. When attempting this with fingers 2 & 3 it feels much weaker and slower. There are, in fact, four F# notes to negotiate in this, so there is the problem of how to ensure that one's fingers fall on the buttons in the correct order.

 

Looking forward to suggestions as to how to overcome this difficulty.

[John Wild]

I think you have to look at the complete music phrase, and see where the fingers are coming from and where they are needed next. Generally I would try to use the 3rd finger for the lower F#, leaving the 2nd finger available fior the C#. But it can depend on the whole tune pattern.

[Kenglish]

Thank you John. I am sure that Gavin will forgive me for posting the whole of his version of the tune. I hope this helps in the discussion. I think I have other tunes where there is a repeated C# (right side) and others where there is an F# on the top left.

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Kenglish

[Wolf Molkentin]

so it‘s actually a C rather than a C#

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Wolf Molkentin
typo

[McDouglas]

What about this fingering of the RH?

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by McDouglas
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[McDouglas]

What about this fingering?

[Kenglish]

In answer to Wolf, I'm not so worried about the C/C# in this particular tune, naturally. I shall come to another example shortly.

 

McDouglas, that is the fingering I tried originally, then wondered whether ST used 1 & 2 all the time. 2 & 3 seem more natural in that position, but feel weaker, although perhaps that is simply down to a need to practice and build up muscle strength.

 

I thought that I would share an excerpt from a modified "hornpipe" in jig form. It isn't in its original key and was modified to be played on a D/G melodeon. 212 in the left, then 121, 212, 121 in the right seem to work here since we have C not C#. The tune is in the key of G. What follows is D in the left. So far with searching I haven't found a clear example with C# and I think it's more likely to occur fleetingly for two notes rather than three in tune composed in D or partly in D.

Edited February 2, 2019 by Kenglish

[Wolf Molkentin]

In Gavin‘s score the C/C# variations appear perfectly appropriate (and much contributing to the tune’s appeal) as for me - it‘s just that even from your first short excerpt the second sharp in this section seemed rather unprobable.

 

But maybe I‘m missing the point here...

[Kenglish]

I only opened the discussion really to obtain guidance on fingering repeated notes and have received some. Yes, of course the C# in Uncle Jim's is part of the appeal and delight of the tune. The score is simply Gavin's variation of the tune. Naturally, there can be many variations of these dance tunes, as each musician may interpret the tune a little differently.

[Wolf Molkentin]

o.k. - as to the fingering, why not play the three consecutive F# notes with 2-1-2 (the ordinary technique engaging the „stronger“ index and middle finger, albeit not that rapid, possibly inverted when starting with 2) and then switch (back) to 3 (ring finger) for the final F# - which would be in good accordance with my understanding of the jig pulse.

 

Best wishes - ?

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by Wolf Molkentin
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