Bellow size vs playing power

[Azalin]

Yep, I'd also say that if there's no way on earth you can manage to get $1500, buying a Rochelle at $600 would be the next best thing, although it still might be harmful to your body if you play for extended hours.

 

I avoided suggesting a better concertina to the poster because suggesting a new concertina when someones asks a question about his/her concertina is like suggesting to someone to buy a Porsche when the person is asking about his/her Honda Civic :-) But when a suggestion can save lives, it's worth it

[dwinterfield]

Regarding he air button, I wonder if you might modify the length of the hand rail. I had an outstanding hybrid, but found that the hand rail was too long for the structure of my thumb. Because of the length of the rail, I had to curl my thumb over the top of it to reach the air button. The maker shortened (by about an inch) the hand rail for me and it was never a problem again. I don't know how the rail on a Stagi is mounted. If it's screwed on, you should be able to get at the screws by removing the end. If it's glued, you could probably trim it in place, but be very careful not to mess up the finish.

[david_boveri]

Yep, I'd also say that if there's no way on earth you can manage to get $1500, buying a Rochelle at $600 would be the next best thing, although it still might be harmful to your body if you play for extended hours.

 

I avoided suggesting a better concertina to the poster because suggesting a new concertina when someones asks a question about his/her concertina is like suggesting to someone to buy a Porsche when the person is asking about his/her Honda Civic :-) But when a suggestion can save lives, it's worth it

 

that's why it's so fortunate for me and other david that so many other people were helpful first. then we can speak the truth, and the truth will set him free....

[Anglo-Irishman]

Yep, I'd also say that if there's no way on earth you can manage to get $1500, buying a Rochelle at $600 would be the next best thing, although it still might be harmful to your body if you play for extended hours.

 

I avoided suggesting a better concertina to the poster because suggesting a new concertina when someones asks a question about his/her concertina is like suggesting to someone to buy a Porsche when the person is asking about his/her Honda Civic :-) But when a suggestion can save lives, it's worth it

 

that's why it's so fortunate for me and other david that so many other people were helpful first. then we can speak the truth, and the truth will set him free....

 

 

David,

To enlarge on your metaphor: If your Honda Civic is not fast enough or advanced enough, you don't have to go for a Porsche straight away! A Honda with a more powerful engine and/or lane-keeping assistant would be a step in the right direction at much less cost.

 

There are Hondas and Hondas, and by analogy there are Stagis and Stagis. The Stagi that the OP is playing in the clip is one of the 20-button German type - obviously modelled on the Klingenthal product, and the air-valve does seem to be unusually far out. But Stagi also offers a 30-button Anglo with wood or metal ends, more similar in appearance to a Wheatstone or Lachenal, and here the air-button is within easy reach of the thumb. If you're not scraping the barrel financially, but still want to stay in the 3-figure Dollar or Euro range, a top-level Stagi would be preferable to a Rochelle on tone, ergonomics and appearance.

 

Having said that, I admit that I started my concertina life with a cheap Klingenthal 20-button concertina. But even with it, I had zero problems with the air-valve. I just dropped my thumb, and there it was!

 

I notice in this and other forims that many beginners have problems reaching the air-valve. I suppose that this is because concertinas are like cars - they're designed with the ergonomics of an average human anatomy in mind. Most of us are comfortable in most cars, but very short and very tall people sometimes have problems with the position of the driving-seat. I, for example, have never has a problem reaching the air-valve, but on both my Anglo and my Crane I would be more comfortable with the inner row farther from the hand-bar. (Although the longer I play them, the less often I notice this!)

 

To go by the clip, McQuacker seems to have an unusually short thumb - the question is whether the most expensive, high-level instrument would be any better for him in this respect. This might be a case for falling back on some modification, like the levers that some old German concertinas had in place of a button (and I don't mean the typical Bandoneon metal lever, though this is far better than anything on an English-built concertina).

 

Cheers,

John

Edited March 24, 2011 by Anglo-Irishman

[Ardie]

Returning to the initial topic there were two issues, firstly the title as it says, " bellow size vs playing power", secondly if this was involved in the described pain.

Later on the discussion has drifted into air button location, hand and thumb size, general quality of makes, and now cars

 

Concerning bellows "size" it may be noticed that the end area first of all determines the power required for pumping but if the bellows are long or much extended while playing the additional stabilizing effort may be significant. One question then is what a difference between the cross sections of two instruments may result in a significant difference in playing effort - and even more important maybe - difference in musical performance.

 

In ordinary playing I would say that an end area difference of 10-15% mostly is unimportant while more than 20% certainly is noticeable.

The specific piece of music is of great interest and also the way performing it. The tonal control mostly is better with a smaller instrument but since a smaller diameter of the bellows means a need for longer and/or more frequent bellows movements for the same notes it depends on the specific music what occasionally is preferrable. For very rhythmical and dynamic music the smaller sizes may be more efficient while for less energetic legato playing a larger diameter may be better notwithstanding that the relation sound amplitude/pumping power is inferior.

What is the experience from others?

[Tijn Berends]

Well that's a lot to think about.

 

I've tried loosening the hand strap a bit, but there's no way I can reach the air button with my thumb, and still play.

The rail is screwed to the face plate, on top of the coating, so it would be very easy to shorten it a bit, but even then

I doubt it would be enough. Moving the rail about half an inch closer to the buttons might do the trick, but I'd have to

redo the coating, to cover the old screw holes.

 

I'll be at the shop where I bought my Stagi soon (I want to get an air button on the left-hand side too, though with all these

new comments, I think I'm fixing a problem that should not be there on a better instrument). When I'm there I'll ask

if I can try a better concertina for a bit, to see what the difference is, if it plays really that much better. If so,

I think I could go and start saving for a good one.

[Chris Ghent]

If you can bridge the gap between the handrail under your thumb and the air button with a piece of wood hinged at the handrest end then pushing it anywhere along its length will operate the air button. The closer to the handrest you put pressure on it the more pressure will be required, but the method works. To do it temporarily so as to gauge the effectiveness, take a piece of thick cardboard the width of the lower part of the handrest and long enough to reach the button, tape it to the back of the handrest and lay it over the thumb part and hold it in place with your thumb while you try it out.

 

Chris

[Ardie]

The rail is screwed to the face plate, on top of the coating, so it would be very easy to shorten it a bit, but even then

I doubt it would be enough. Moving the rail about half an inch closer to the buttons might do the trick, but I'd have to

redo the coating, to cover the old screw holes.

 

It is the same with all common anglo makes and models. Since the measures can not be expected to suit all players there should be options to adjust the placing of the hand rest. The common arrangement is in real very primitive. Some players have added a thumb strap which improves stability and the rail and strap ought to be wider than usual as well.

 

The closer to the handrest you put pressure on it the more pressure will be required, but the method works.

 

I don't quite see what you mean. Would you mind sending a photo?