Air button control on Anglo

[michael sam wild]

I play C/G Jeffries and find that I don't keep my thumb as near the air button as I might, which is particularly annoying when playing in D. Otherwise in G etc the normal in/out gives me less relience on such air button use. I found this happened as I got more experienced on melodeon. I've never liked the sucking noise I hear when some people play with a lot of air button use ( it sounds like Gordon Brown used to! with that annoying dropped jaw when he ran out of breath!)

 

I know I should work on it but have other people done anything about it? I have thought about a thumb strap as on an EC,,as a loop on the wrist strap; a longer button extension, a lever like Geoff Crabb has described, or sheer hard work and a blister or later on a 'segg' on the thumb or a little sleeve of rubber to protect it a bit.

Edited January 31, 2011 by michael sam wild

[Michael Eskin]

I think practice, practice, practice is the answer. On those D tunes where you find yourself with more pull than push and the bellows tending toward getting widely extended, look for opportunities to use alternate push notes for pulls to give you opportunities to dump air if necessary.

Edited January 29, 2011 by eskin

[Kautilya]

a longer button extension, a lever like Geoff Crabb hasdescribed, or sheer hard work and a blister or later on a 'segg' on the thumb or a little sleeve of rubber to protect it a bit.

Sometimes a segg on your mub might be better, you can develop it easily in pub sessions and it can help re-align your posture and hence affect sympathetic muscles in your hands Mike! Goran Rahm probably has some tips somewhere.

 

On a lighter note. I peformed this operation below in Mid August (13th I see from the post) and it is still in place and has made life a much easier tho my playing has not improved generally! Another option I have kept in reserve is cutting off the rounded white plastic ends of dental brushes - my original thought was as replacement buttons and I do not know if supergluing onto existing buttons will hold.

 

As I said, here's the one I did before; using a sleeve.If I spot some more of the watering cans I will buy one and let u have when I see you; or keep an eye out in the pound shops.

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=11617

[Anglo-Irishman]

I play C/G Jeffries and find that I don't keep my thumb as near the air button as I might, ... I have thought about ... a longer button extension

 

I had problems with the air button on my Stagi at the start. Not that it wasn't near enough to my thumb, but somehow the "shoulder" of the handrest prevented me from pressing my thumb all the way down. I pared as much off the "shoulder" as I dared, but it still wasn't enough. So I just made a longer button - with plumbing material!

 

The lever systems for opening and closing the stoppers of wash-basins have levers made of chromed brass rod 5 mm thick - the same diameter as a Stagi button. They are usually over-length, and you have to cut off the ends to make them fit under the basin, so I had a piece of one left over. The end is even domed!

The Stagi buttons have a metal tongue with a slot for the lever inserted in the drilled button, and I emulated this by simply filing the sawn-off end of the brass rod from both sides, and drilling two holes in the resulting flat section, which I merged to form a slot with a fretsaw. I left the round section about twice the length of the original button - and now I have perfect control of the air-valve! The lever and pad just stayed as they were, and the rubber damper from the original button fitted the home-made one.

 

An evening's tinkering, and I've been happy ever since!

 

Cheers,

John

[Ardie]

I think practice, practice, practice is the answer. On those D tunes where you find yourself with more pull than push and the bellows tending toward getting widely extended, look for opportunities to use alternate push notes for pulls to give you opportunities to dump air if necessary.

 

On the contrary. More practice can hardly be the answer if anatomy does not fit.The lever construction - like Geoff Crabb has used instead of the common press buttons - must be a more rational solution since that offers more relaxed activity for the thumb and to make conditions even more flexible another air valve at the other side might be handy as well.

[Michael Eskin]

I was commenting on the original posts "I play C/G Jeffries and find that I don't keep my thumb as near the air button as I might", which sounds more to me like a habit to work on rather than a mechanical distance issue. If it's truly an issue of not being able to reach the air button, then of course, some sort of extension would make sense.

[michael sam wild]

Thanks to all the helpful suggestions. i was talking to Brian Peters recently and he never has his thumb away from the button. I am wondering about wrist strap tightness or slackness, hand rest thickness, muscle control etc all could be involved, but I do seem to have trouble angling the thumb to touch. Today I am trying out kautilya's suggestion of the sleeve made from a cut down handle which comes in the pack of Swedish TePe dental flossing 'bottle brushes' . If it works John's more permanent solution may be applied.

 

Mike , I am working using push Enote and B note and push A+D chord and A+E chord to gain some air without sounding too much like pipes regulators.

 

 

 

I am seriously looking at a c# push on the RHs, I only have a pull c#. I have a 26 button and don't really want to lose eflat and and g#

 

 

Edited to say the plastc sleeve added 3 mm to the button and it works so will probably get a longer bone air button

Edited January 31, 2011 by michael sam wild

[Michael Eskin]

Is there any chance that your handrails are too tall, even by 1/4"? When I first bought my Carroll, the previous owner had very large hands and had Wally make a slightly taller than normal hand rail. For the first couple of years, I had all kinds of range of motion issues on the instrument until Noel Hill and I finally figured out what was going on. I had Wally shorten the hand rails and after that, I could easily reach everything comfortably. It just never had dawned on me that there was some leeway for variation in handrail height.

 

For the record, my thumb is always ready on the air button, I don't have to move to it, it's just right there.

Edited January 31, 2011 by eskin

[Ardie]

Is there any chance that your handrails are too tall, even by 1/4"? .. I had Wally shorten the hand rails and after that, I could easily reach everything comfortably.

 

That depends.If you rest the palm of your hand at the hand rail and your wrist at the end plate while extending the wrist it may work as you say - a high hand rail may limit the range. If you have your wrist in a neutral position, rest the palm at the handrail while the wrist does not touch the endplate a higher hand rail may give a wider range.As every bandoneon player knows a platform-like elevation of the nearer part of the end gives even better access to the keyboard. I see no real obstacle to using this design with the anglo as well.It also depends on the keyboard range of course.With 40 keys most players will have to slide to reach some distant buttons - with 26 there may hardly be any need for that at all.

[Azalin]

For the record, my thumb is always ready on the air button, I don't have to move to it, it's just right there.

 

Yes, same here, it's always standing very close to the air button...

[Anglo-Irishman]

For the record, my thumb is always ready on the air button, I don't have to move to it, it's just right there.

 

Yes, same here, it's always standing very close to the air button...

 

Me, too!

 

The first thing that happens when I pick up my Anglo is that my fingers go through the straps and the right thumb lands on the air-valve to open the bellows. The fingers then go to their "home positions" for the key I intend to play in - but the thumb has nothing else to do, so it just stays there at the ready. Why move it?

 

Cheers,

John

[david_boveri]

hey michael, how often do you practice your air button? it can often be very helpful to get to know your air button, outside of worrying about when to press it during tunes. one great exercise i read on here, as advocated by jody kruskal: play long notes, and then try to hit the air button at different points of each note, without changing the sound.

 

depending on how much you care, it can be a good idea to take a couple tunes in your repertoire and plan out your air button usage. if you can read notes or note names (or tablature of any sort), you can write out the tunes, and then mark in air button usage by writing in "air" or an "x." very soon you will find you don't need to write it out, and that you can work on it without all that extra effort. if you only learn by ear, try taking a phrase at a time, and practice doing the air on different notes.

 

long notes a great place to press the air button, but eventually you learn to press it on eighth notes, too! personally i don't "hang out" on my air button like others here mention. i think i used to, but i have noticed lately that my thumb slips lazily to the side, yet i automatically grab for air when i need it, without giving it a second thought. however, when i make an effort to "hug" the air button, my bellows usage becomes even more efficient.

 

something to try: keep your finger on the button, applying light pressure, and don't worry if it accidentally gets pushed down.

 

if you are having trouble remembering to keep it there, do some "air button" scales. i used to do this all the time. take every note on the concertina, and learn what it feels like to do a long tone ALL THE WAY, while pressing the air button. i also did this without any other notes. of course, i like to take things to extremes, so i learned how much the air button could really accommodate by putting so much pressure on the air button that the pad crumpled, . i was able to flatten it, but needless to say it had to be replaced, as it kept getting stuck (when others played it was no problem, but noel hill and i always seemed to manage to get it stuck).

[Ardie]

For the record, my thumb is always ready on the air button, I don't have to move to it, it's just right there.

 

Yes, same here, it's always standing very close to the air button...

 

Me, too!

The fingers then go to their "home positions" for the key I intend to play in - but the thumb has nothing else to do, so it just stays there at the ready. Why move it?

 

Cheers,

John

 

Hand measures vary but keyboard measures are mostly the same.You guys are just fortunate if they fit perfectly for you.Since an ideal hand position is so important for concertinas is it not surprising that so few instruments have been built with special measures? Accordions vary a lot more.

[david fabre]

On my Stagi (same model as John I think), the previous owner has added a little device to raise and increase the diameter of the air button (see photos).

I don't know where he found that thing ; I've found it practical and have kept it.

 

Stagi1.pdf

Stagi2.pdf

[Azalin]

personally i don't "hang out" on my air button like others here mention. i think i used to, but i have noticed lately that my thumb slips lazily to the side, yet i automatically grab for air when i need it, without giving it a second thought. however, when i make an effort to "hug" the air button, my bellows usage becomes even more efficient.

 

Yeah as Ardie stated, I guess it depends on how your concertina is built. The way the right handle is positioned and its size and shape means that my thumb sits directly on top of the air button, and I would have to make an effort to have it further away. I'm sure it's just luck that my hands and thumb fit the current design so well.

[david_boveri]

personally i don't "hang out" on my air button like others here mention. i think i used to, but i have noticed lately that my thumb slips lazily to the side, yet i automatically grab for air when i need it, without giving it a second thought. however, when i make an effort to "hug" the air button, my bellows usage becomes even more efficient.

 

Yeah as Ardie stated, I guess it depends on how your concertina is built. The way the right handle is positioned and its size and shape means that my thumb sits directly on top of the air button, and I would have to make an effort to have it further away. I'm sure it's just luck that my hands and thumb fit the current design so well.

 

mine fits very well. it's just laziness, :-P. everything on my concertina is exactly how i want it, even my especially-small hand straps on my regular-sized concertina.

 

last night i was working on whether or not i could use the air button to shape notes. i am just beginning the process of working through martin hayes' first album, and i was trying to find out if if i could copy the way he shapes his notes, but do it on the concertina. i was inspired by the fact that his bowing technique is not "technically correct." to increase volume, he bows quicker, without putting extra pressure. i thought to myself... could i pull quicker, without putting extra pressure? the answer was yes (with the air button down). the jury is still out, but it does seem to make a difference, and it seems it will help me approximate his phrasing.

 

so, the point of it all is that yes, i can sit on the air button the whole time! this affirms i have been just lazy. actually, as i try to emulate martin hayes' phrasing, i end up spending more time on the air button than not, pressing it and pulling it up during some point of almost every note.

 

this discussion has been helpful for me, because even though it felt spontaneous (the idea hit me to use the air button for phrasing while at a coffee shop), i think it was because this discussion had "activated" the air button for me (i'm a cognitive psychology grad student--sorry. "activated" information = readily available for use at a neurological level, but not at a conscious level).

[Tootler]

For the record, my thumb is always ready on the air button, I don't have to move to it, it's just right there.

 

Yes, same here, it's always standing very close to the air button...

 

Me, too!

The fingers then go to their "home positions" for the key I intend to play in - but the thumb has nothing else to do, so it just stays there at the ready. Why move it?

 

Cheers,

John

 

Hand measures vary but keyboard measures are mostly the same.You guys are just fortunate if they fit perfectly for you.Since an ideal hand position is so important for concertinas is it not surprising that so few instruments have been built with special measures? Accordions vary a lot more.

 

Very true. My hand is quite small so my thumb doesn't fall naturally over the air button. I have to move it into position, but I keep it where it can quickly be moved to work the air button when needed. After a time, you find a position that suits you.

 

Geoff

[Azalin]

this discussion has been helpful for me, because even though it felt spontaneous (the idea hit me to use the air button for phrasing while at a coffee shop), i think it was because this discussion had "activated" the air button for me (i'm a cognitive psychology grad student--sorry. "activated" information = readily available for use at a neurological level, but not at a conscious level).

 

Using the air button for phrasing, wow, one of these days send me a sound sample please, I'd curious to hear that. Meanwhile, please don't become yet another Martin Hayes clone, I can't stand it! (Although I've never met a Martin Hayes close that wasn't cloning on fiddle!).

 

I often readjust my bellows by playing a note while pushing the air button... so the note will require more air and will allow me to pull a lot, but I'm not sure if it affects the sound of the note.