Competitions

[Irene S.]

I've been talking to a few friends about this subject and was reminded that traditional singers like Joseph Taylor entered a competition that Percy Grainger held in Lincolnshire;

 

 

Errmm ... no, sorry Mike, Percy Grainger didn't hold the competition in Brigg. He attended it in 1905, which was where he first came across Taylor (who won the competition in that year with a rendition of "Creeping Jane"), returned to it in 1906 with Lucy Broadwood (his mentor), who was one of the judges at the Music Festival - the Song Competition was part of a larger overall Music Festival, where he and Lucy collected songs from "five or six old men", and returned again with a phonograph to record Taylor who he regarded as the best folk singer he had ever heard... and all of this led to the first ever commercial recording release of folksinging (with Taylor and others on it) as a result of recordings Grainger undertook in 1907. So Grainger was present at two of the competitions ... but he was not an organiser.

 

Sorry ... getting researcher's anorak hood off now .....

[LDT]

 

My 16 year old son likes to listen to some very repetitive techno music when he does math homework. There is a place for music where it's function is not to be listened to exactly (as in a concert) but rather to set a mood or drive away loneliness or make activity easier. I rarely listen to music for pleasure except when I'm cooking in the kitchen or driving the car.

 

I find I can't 'design' without some 'background' music....although not techno in my case.

[david fabre]

My 16 year old son likes to listen to some very repetitive techno music when he does math homework.

 

When I was a student and revising for math exams I used to listen a lot to indian

classical music (shaurasia, ravi shankar, etc...).

 

Now that I'm a teacher, when I have to correct my student's exam what I find most

appropriate to set me in the right mood is AC/DC !

Edited January 28, 2010 by david fabre

[Robin Madge]

When I entered the Taunton competition, mentioned by Peter above, it was mainly because I hadn't really got any idea of where I stood in terms of my quality of playing and I wanted to see how I was judged by an independant witness. It was quite unexpected to come joint second!

I entered a singing competition at about the same time for the same reason, but that didn't really help me as most of the comments were about my choice of song rather than my performance.

 

After that I didn't really go in for competions.

 

I inadvertently came second in a sea song competition at Bromyard one year, I didn't actually know that it was a competition rather than a singaround!

 

Robin Madge

[Irene S.]

I inadvertently came second in a sea song competition at Bromyard one year, I didn't actually know that it was a competition rather than a singaround!

 

 

Now that I like!!!

Edited January 29, 2010 by Irene S

[m3838]

My 16 year old son likes to listen to some very repetitive techno music when he does math homework.

 

When I was a student and revising for math exams I used to listen a lot to indian

classical music (shaurasia, ravi shankar, etc...).

 

Now that I'm a teacher, when I have to correct my student's exam what I find most

appropriate to set me in the right mood is AC/DC !

 

One very famous Disney Animator, when asked "what kind of music he likes to listen to" screamed back in rage: -"I'm not SMART enough to think about two things at once". So who knows, may be when you think you can't work without background music, it's an acquired condition that actually dampen your ability to perform? It may be that you can't concentrate and music provides needed distraction. So the real problem is not been able to concentrate, that needs remedy. Music is just a useful excuse.

[m3838]

Functional"?What's that supposed to mean?

 

Functional means it's intended to be part of something else, not a thing in itself. "Intended" is a key word. Folk music is best to be participated in, not passively listen to. There is not enough musical content in, say, "Star of the County Down". However, many locals may know the song and happily sing together, so they don't mind the quality of playing.

 

Do people attending a 'traditional' folk concert expect technical excellence and virtuoso performances?

Isn't that what concerts of all kinds - jazz, classical, folk, blues, rock, whatever - are all about?

 

 

There is a difference between folk music and professional performance in the folk style. A performing musician is, most of all, performer, entertainer and professional (on the local performing level, obviously better than most in attendance). Otherwise he doesn't belong to the stage and is getting laughed at. There you have common standards to adhere to, mostly tailored to expectations of saturated audience. "Star of the County Down" will more closely resemble complexly arranged classical piece than familiar folk tune.

 

Classical music, like all the other music genres, is played at many levels, mostly by amateurs, and more for pleasure than for pay.  It's a fairly safe bet that there are more amateurs playing classical music around the world, than are playing Irish TDM.

 

You want to play poorly? - You're your own boss. But when you want to improve, what makes you think you are actually improving?

I totally agree with Peter Trimming, the question can't be answered any better.

Edited January 29, 2010 by m3838

[sympathy]

I used to love the Kapunda Folk Festival Competitions here in South Australia years ago.

 

I could do the; guitar, banjo, concertina, pipes (smallpipes), whistle and vocal comps and make a tidy profit each year. But they banned me and made me a judge. Didn't pay half as well!

 

................. not a big fish, just a VERY small pond!

 

I've seen some young kids work really hard for the annual competitions and it certainly didn't do their playing any harm. They were also given the opportunity to see/hear/meet/session with some truly great players "under pressure" as it were and could learn an awful lot.

Without the piper's competitions in Northumberland I wouldn't have the opportunity to play the many variations to traditional tunes that were written for them.

 

Competitions are fine, in my view, as long as winners and losers (and non-competitors) still enjoy a tune together afterwards.

 

Ray

[Steve Mansfield]

I inadvertently came second in a sea song competition at Bromyard one year, I didn't actually know that it was a competition rather than a singaround!

 

I've been in a few sessions that some people decide to treat as competitions - usually of the my-top-speed-for-Irish-reels-is-faster-than-your-top-speed-for-Irish-reels variety ... which, for me at least, is a bit like pizza. I love it, but I wouldn't want it to be the entirety of my diet ...

[michael sam wild]

I think it looks as though friendly, fair competition can improve playing and focus the mind and be helpfully adjudicated.

 

The kind of thiing Steve mentions is the sort of situation that encourages no one and just feeds egos.

 

We were in a session in a pub Whitby last year and some musicians who I normally regard as friends said 'Let's burn this bugger off' when a rather nervous fiddler started to play. He packed up and left shortly after. As far as I could see he was not offensive but maybe they wanted a speed session to themselves, or the six hours boozing was talking!

 

I went off too.

 

 

I know posers and insensitive players can ruin a session but we all started somewhere.

Edited January 29, 2010 by michael sam wild

[yankeeclipper]

Functional"?What's that supposed to mean?

 

Functional means it's intended to be part of something else, not a thing in itself. "Intended" is a key word. Folk music is best to be participated in, not passively listen to. There is not enough musical content in, say, "Star of the County Down". However, many locals may know the song and happily sing together, so they don't mind the quality of playing.

 

Do people attending a 'traditional' folk concert expect technical excellence and virtuoso performances?

Isn't that what concerts of all kinds - jazz, classical, folk, blues, rock, whatever - are all about?

 

 

There is a difference between folk music and professional performance in the folk style. A performing musician is, most of all, performer, entertainer and professional (on the local performing level, obviously better than most in attendance). Otherwise he doesn't belong to the stage and is getting laughed at. There you have common standards to adhere to, mostly tailored to expectations of saturated audience. "Star of the County Down" will more closely resemble complexly arranged classical piece than familiar folk tune.

 

Classical music, like all the other music genres, is played at many levels, mostly by amateurs, and more for pleasure than for pay.  It's a fairly safe bet that there are more amateurs playing classical music around the world, than are playing Irish TDM.

 

You want to play poorly? - You're your own boss. But when you want to improve, what makes you think you are actually improving?

I totally agree with Peter Trimming, the question can't be answered any better.

 

m3838: if you want to use quotes, please have the courtesy to refrain from altering them. In your second quote above, you deleted the underlined word "not" from my original post, inverting the question.

 

The word "functional" does not mean something is "intended to be part of something else." "Functional" means having a purpose. All music is functional, even 'elevator music.'

 

There is a difference between folk music and professional performance in the folk style.

 

Yes, and the same applies to classical music. Comparing informal folk music with formal classical performances is meaningless. Classical and folk music are both played at many levels, from in-home, informal amateur sessions to concert performances. Both are played primarily for the pleasure of the players and their friends. And classical music, like folk music, is "best to be participated in, not passively listen to." That's why there are so many more people playing it around the world.

 

You want to play poorly? - You're your own boss. But when you want to improve, what makes you think you are actually improving?

 

What does this mean? Did anyone here say they "want to play poorly"?

Edited January 29, 2010 by yankeeclipper

[m3838]

m3838: if you want to use quotes, please have the courtesy to refrain from altering them. In your second quote above, you deleted the underlined word "not" from my original post, inverting the question.

 

Unintentionally. All this clicking...

 

The word "functional" does not mean something is "intended to be part of something else." "Functional" means having a purpose. All music is functional, even 'elevator music.'

Serious music's purpose is communication of an emotion.

Folk music's purpose is to unify efforts.

 

There is a difference between folk music and professional performance in the folk style.

 

Yes, and the same applies to classical music.

 

Hmm. Like there is a difference between classical music and professioinal performance in the classical music style? Makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Comparing informal folk music with formal classical performances is meaningless.

Agree, but who's doing it?

 

Classical and folk music are both played at many levels, from in-home, informal amateur sessions to concert performances. Both are played primarily for the pleasure of the players and their friends. And classical music, like folk music, is "best to be participated in, not passively listen to." That's why there are so many more people playing it around the world.

 

It's a strange argument. Like you didn't understand the subject of discussion. Professionally played Irish Folk tune, performed at a competition, is not in the folk tradition, and adds nothing to it, but it breeds good musicians. May be they can earn a living by doing it.

 

You want to play poorly? - You're your own boss. But when you want to improve, what makes you think you are actually improving?

 

What does this mean? Did anyone here say they "want to play poorly"?

 

It was a catch. My question is really "if you want to play well, by whose standards? If the standards are obsolete, then anybody is playing well, who's the judge?"

 

And now, let's proceed to the best part, Russian Folk tune "Kamarinskaya".

3rd day of learning accordion. True folk performer.

higly trained amateur

1.38 more or less what the tune is

out of any classification. Only in Russia.

professional orchestra

two pros art trying to make a buck