des tracey

I don't know about old-fashioned. A bit of a prig* perhaps, and a self-styled EBay policeman. Remind me if we ever meet to buy you a pint and we can perhaps discuss an individual's interactions with a billion dollar corporation. But no harm has been done- the concertina has been sold and I will pay the EBay fees. I'm glad you got your money for your concertina. It was not my intention to do harm but as one who would be among those interested in the concertina, I do take exception to those who make up their own sales rules. And again, no matter what your thoughts on eBay are, YOU chose to use it as the vehicle for the sale of your instrument. For my part, I have no vested interest in EBay or their fortunes, however, if you were to put this instrument into a regular estate or musical instrument auction, you would be bound by their rules. Why treat Ebay users any differently? I'm not trying to show 'superior knowledge' , and as your eBay record is much greater than mine I wouldn't presume to know more on the subject. By the way, it is likely that I'll bump into you at some point in Co Clare and I would be delighted to discuss these matters over a pint. As for 'Zealous', I'm reminded of a quote from Gene Burns (Your near neighbour in NH will know of him). A zealot is an indivdual who redoubles his efforts having forgotten his original goal'. My only goal was to highlight what I consider to be a questionable practice at best.

I don't know about old-fashioned. A bit of a prig* perhaps, and a self-styled EBay policeman. Remind me if we ever meet to buy you a pint and we can perhaps discuss an individual's interactions with a billion dollar corporation. But no harm has been done- the concertina has been sold and I will pay the EBay fees. I'm glad you got your money for your concertina. It was not my intention to do harm but as one who would be among those interested in the concertina, I do take exception to those who make up their own sales rules. And again, no matter what your thoughts on eBay are, YOU chose to use it as the vehicle for the sale of your instrument. For my part, I have no vested interest in EBay or their fortunes, however, if you were to put this instrument into a regular estate or musical instrument auction, you would be bound by their rules. Why treat Ebay users any differently? I'm not trying to show 'superior knowledge' , and as your eBay record is much greater than mine I wouldn't presume to know more on the subject. As for 'Zealous', I'm reminded of a quote from Gene Burns (Your near neighbour in NH will know of him). A zealot is an indivdual who redoubles his efforts having forgotten his original goal'. My only goal was to highlight what I consider to be a questionable practice at best.

Hello Mark, Good to hear from you. I remeber [sic] you had that concertina at the Willie Week a few years ago. My problem with the ad on Ebay is that there is no reserve shown and the seller chose to include a reserve (known only to himself) in the middle of the auction. Mark has never seen this concertina so you are wrong there. I clearly posted the reserve in the original listing: "I am selling it with a reserve price of $3,100..." ----------- Thanks to Mark Davies for the kind words. See you soon. I wasn't referring to your concertina but that Wifra that Mark brought to Milltown some years back. My apologies re. the reserve mentioned in the Ebay ad. description, I see that now. However, the listing doesn't show a reserve as would be the case when a reserve is included on the eBay conditions. Whatever one thinks of eBay, it does have its rules and conditions and if one choses to use it as a vehicle for buying or selling, then I suggest that users should abide by those. This would preclude people 'pulling' an item before the auction ends for whatever reasons, not selling because the item didn't meet an imaginary high figure etc. In this case it would appear that you wish to have it every way. You are stating that there is a reserve, but because EBay doesn't specify it, then the discretion to sell it rests with you. Similarly, you state that it is listed elsewhere, which implies that if you don't like the price or you get a better offer then you'll let it off outside of EBay. Call me old fashioned, but I think that people who see EBay as an auction site with clearly defined conditions of use are entitled to fair play.

Hello Mark, Good to hear from you. I remeber you had that concertina at the Willie Week a few years ago. My problem with the ad on Ebay is that there is no reserve shown and the seller chose to include a reserve (known only to himself) in the middle of the auction. As one who has bought and sold on eBay, I realize that by not putting a reserve on an item that there is a danger of it selling too cheaply and to include a reserve incurs extra charges from Ebay. I would feel uncomfortable changing the rules in the middle of the game as the seller has done. My view for what its worth is "you make your choice and you takes your cjances". To further confuse the issue it is stated that he has it listed elsewhere and he may withdraw it. Talk about hedging bets!.

Cnet Quote: "If I don’t sell it here I will post it on EBay, where I expect it will fetch well in excess of $3,000. Postage and insurance will be extra." Ebay Quote: "I will be happy to ship internationally and I will accept any form of payment mutually acceptable. Please note that I have listed the concertina on other venues so it might be wise to contact me expressing your interest so that I do not accept another offer while the auction is going on.And please also note also that I have set a reserve on the auction." Doubts?

Apologies to the seller if I'm wrong, but this one smells. If my memory serves, one of the contributors to this site was selling this box a long time back. Again, relying on memory, I think it was 'cocusflute'. He lives(d) in New Hampshire. It certainly fits in with his stated intentions at the time to spend part of the year in Ireland. Beware.

Hello Vladimir, I bought the concertina from Finland. It is a lachenal metal-ended in high pitch Aflat/Eflat made for the Salvation Army. See SA cut into one of the ends. It requires a little work, but even as it is it has surprisingly good volume and a 'bark' to it. The response is very quick and the overall quality of the instrument is excellent, with 7 fold bellows and fancy Lachenal bellows papers. I'm very pleased with it and intend to keep it in its old tuning. Thanks for pointing it out. I couldn't get a very good description from the auctioneer, but took a 'flier', I paid fairly decent money for it but I'm more than pleased with the outcome. See Pics at http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l70/destracey/lachenal/[/url] thanks Des

Hello Vladimir, I bought the concertina from Finland. It is a lachenal metal-ended in high pitch Aflat/Eflat made for the Salvation Army. See SA cut into one of the ends. It requires a little work, but even as it is a has surprisingly good volume and a 'bark' to it. The response is very quick and the overall quality of the instrument is excellent, with 7 fold bellows and fancy Lachenal bellows papers. I'm very pleased with it and intend to keep it in its old tuning. Des

One oddity on it is that the top push B on the G row is actually a Bb, which can be useful in Gm, but can be frustrating at other times. Does have anyone else have this button tuned to Bb? Clive, It is common for John Crabb and Jeffries C/G anglos to have that button tuned Bb (press)/G# (draw), especially when they have more than 31 buttons. It is more-or-less "standard" (with exceptions of course) on the 38 and 44 key anglos. Early Crabbs and Jeffries with buttons layouts between 31 and 38 buttons are not uncommon, and some have 36 keys. What is unusual about Des's William Jeffries is that the 36 buttons are physically arranged like those of a 36 key Wheatstone, i.e. in 3 rows of 6 buttons each per side. Can't remember, but Des's instrument may also have a LH thumb button making it really a 37 key + air. But in many hundreds of instruments I can't remember having previously seen that (3 X 6) + (3 X 6) keypad on any John Crabb or Jeffries family instrument. Later Crabb family anglos seem often to have been made in the patterns more typical for Lachenals/Wheatstones (30, 32, 36, 40 keys sometimes with additional keys for novelty effects), as well as in configurations like the early John Crabb and Jeffries anglos. I'm not saying there were no other such early Crabb or Jeffries with the same button pattern as Des's, just that I haven't seen them yet. Together with the flat levers, that makes the construction of this William Jeffries interesting to me. However, as Des may want to share, others of its features are decidedly non-Wheatstone-like. Paul Thanks Paul, You are right in that this instrument has a l/h thumb button making it 38 buttons overall. As I said in the earlier post, given my lack of exposure to a sufficient number of concertinas, I was not sure if the number of buttons was an unusual feature (do what are referred to as 38 button Jeffries have the same number, or more?). Whatever about my limited experience of Jeffries, I've had at one time or another 6 Jeffries anglos but never owned a Wheatstone, therefore the features that are 'decidedly non-Wheatstone-like' would probably escape my attention. I have no problem sharing whatever information is to be gleaned from this concertina, therefore if more pictures are required for clarification I would be glad to post them, or indeed answer any questions that might arise. Des

Des, Interesting what you bring up about 36-button instruments. I know someone who has a 36-button C. Jeffries box in C/G; I'll have to take a closer look at it now and see what the levers are like. I didn't realize that 36-buttons were so unusual for Jeffries make. -David David, I don't know (with my limited experience) how rare Jeffries 36 Button anglos are, I've never seen another, but I have no doubt that the knowledgeable readers of this forum are the people to ask. Maybe there are more 36 button Jeffries out there.

Des, The man to answer those kind of questions is Stephen Chambers, who would normally be here, but is suffering from shingles at the moment. Hopefully he'll be better soon, and then be back to answer you. Thanks Wes, I haven't spoken to Stephen in a while and didn't know that he was ill. I hope he is recovering well and I will give hime a bell. Also, I might make my way down to his part of the country in the next couple of weeks and I'll bring along the enigma?..sorry concertina in question. Des

Thanks Wes, I read the article on Jeffries with interest. The address 38 Craven Rd, seems to have been his home address also. I wonder if any other subscribers have a William Jeffries box, and if so have they any pictures to share. As I wrote in my first post, the construction is somewhat different to the earlier Jeffries boxes and the fact that its 36 key (like Wheatstone) and has flat-stock levers (like Wheatstone) I wonder did he use Wheatstone parts?? Did Jeffries Bros. instruments of that era have similar construction? So many questions.... Des

Some time ago I purchased an anglo concertina marked William Jeffries. It has some unusual features when compared to a C Jeffries e.g. flatstock for the levers, extra reeds (36 button) are placed radially as opposed to inboard on earlier Jeffries and the button/note layout is not unlike Wheatstone. Information on William Jeffries seems to be scarce, but I have no doubt that some of you will probably have come across an instrument of his before. Pictures of the instrument in question can be viewed at http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l70/dest...iam%20Jeffries/

Dave, It seems that much of the discussion centred around whether the makers mark was normally found on both ends. In your last posting you clarify that the cause of concern for you initially was that it was only marked on the left. My contribution was that I have seen a number of boxes with markings on both ends. Anyway, I think that at least I am a bit clearer now about the issues which give rise to uncertainty as to origin. I would agree with Stephen when he questions the rake of the buttons on the ebay instrument. I have been studying both my own and photos of other Jeffries and I think that they are a little off, as is the stamping(imho) in relation to the buttons. I also took note of the Crabb that sold on ebay and was sorry that I wasn't in a position to see and play it and perhaps bid on it. It sure looked nice. I might continue this discussion with Stephen and yourself the next time I'm in Kilrush. I hope that you are back to full health and enjoying life and perhaps I'll see you at Eigse Mrs Crotty. Des

Des, I think that many people would read you as doing so. Whatever ... That's an extremely broad question, but I would say that yes, there is a defining attribute : Does it have Jeffries reeds ? If it does, and the instrument was sold by Jeffries as being made by them, then I would consider it a Jeffries. Which I think is rather implicit in Geoff Crabb's response on looking at Geoff Wright's Anglo : <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Stephen, Apologies for my clumsy posting, no offense intended. I was grappling with uploading a couple of pictures of the concertina ends (which I didn't succeed in doing). However, one of the reasons that I continue to check in on contertina.net is to read some of the more authoritative postings from among others, yourself and Paul Groff. I realise that the question is broad, but how does one know if a concertina has Jeffries reeds?, or for that matter if it was sold by Jeffries?

Des, I haven't said any such thing about the stamp being on both ends, which was not something that I suggested as being a problem, nor do I consider it a problem. However the question was addressed directly to someone else, not generally : Is this really such a rarety and possible sign of inauthenticity or even suspicion? I have just purchased a concertina with the "C. Jeffries Maker" on the left side end plate. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So I haven't presumed to comment until they have had the opportunity to reply to it. However, I do see several reasons to be concerned about this particular instrument, and would certainly want to examine it and convince myself of its quality/authenticity before bidding, which I see is now at £2,550. There are fake Jeffries in circulation, some of which are owned by people who believe them to be genuine. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Stephen, Nor did I suggest that YOU had a problem with the stamping on both ends. My point is that the history of the early Jeffries seems to be somewhat clouded and I know that there are many owners out there who would probably like their instruments to be correctly identified. I wonder is this something which can be done authoritatively? As Jeffries seems to have had a less formal manufacturing beginning than Wheatstone or Lachenal and given the lack of Serial numbers, records or even signatures on instruments, will we always wonder or are there defining attributes or qualities which serve to identify these early instruments from their contemporaries?

Is this really such a rarety and possible sign of inauthenticity or even suspicion? I have just purchased a concertina with the "C. Jeffries Maker" on the left side end plate. Richard <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry for the last post-- my finger got away on me. Dave & Stephen, I realise that both of you have considerable experience with concertinas, however I think that you might be scaring some folks out there who have older concertinas of the early C.Jeffries/Crabb varieties. I have an early Jeffries with C.Jeffries Maker stamped on both ends, (I'm sorry that I couldn't upload the pics, but the stampings are in quite small, neat and level type) and I believe that I have seen others similarly stamped. I know that there is discussion surrounding early Jeffries and that they may have been made by John Crabb, in the case of the mine, it is very similar to a concertina attributed to Crabb sold to C. Algar on Ebay within the last fortnight, the greatest difference being that the Crabb had metal buttons. As Jeffries varied in their degree of refinement, is it therefore possible to positively attribute these early anglos with any degree of certainty? I don't know the date of manufacture of this concertina, but pencilled inside is the name 'H.Birchall March 15th 1886'

Is this really such a rarety and possible sign of inauthenticity or even suspicion? I have just purchased a concertina with the "C. Jeffries Maker" on the left side end plate. Richard <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those of you who are in touch with Dave might pass on my best wishes. I met Dave in Milltown last year and was in the Old Fogies concertina class with him. Good guy...get well soon. Des Tracey

Hi Sharron, I've been following this thread and can empathise with your situation. I too have many cds, some of which I tired of very quickly. I don't know exactly what style of concertina playing you like, but I have listened to most of the artists already mentioned and I can honestly say that I was very pleasantly surprised by a recording of the late Tommy McCarthy called 'Sporting Nell'. It is unaccompanied playing on concertina, pipes and whistle played in a 'simple' Clare style with (imho) lovely ornamentaion. I found the following website which gives details of the cd. http://www.openear.ie/Merchant2/merchant.m...egory_Code=Trad (p.s. I have no connection to the vendors). Des