Dave Rogers

Although I do agree with what most of what you've said, there has been plenty of evidence recently that buyers are willing to pay the sort of prices quoted even for un-restored Jeffries anglos. Bonkers, maybe, but that's the state the market appears to have reached.

Morris Dancing must be a sport - here's the proof: http://bjsm.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/23/3/155

Aaah, I see... Thanks for that, I obviously didn't read the instructions (as usual).

Although I'm automatically logged in each time I visit the Forum, for some reason I'm not recognised if I switch to the main Concertina.net area. The system also fails to recognise my email address when I try to sign in from there. Is this a known glitch? I want to contact Geoffrey Crabb via the email link on the "Dating Crabb Concertinas" page, but I'm not able to, due to this problem. Any ideas, anyone? I have PM'd Geoffrey, but I'm guessing that he doesn't have the time to visit the Forum on a regular basis.

Coincidentally, I've just returned today from a week's holiday in Devon. On Thursday, I visited the Museum of Dartmoor Life at Okehampton, and spotted an anglo concertina on a high shelf next to a photo of Bob Cann playing melodeon. I couldn't identify it at a distance (it could have been an early Anglo-German import) and the curator was in a meeting so I didn't get a chance to ask about it. I was intending to email her to ask if she knew its history, and I definitely will now. I'll report back if/when I get any more information.

I thought the name rang a bell - I've got a copy of the John Timpany English fiddle tutor "And out of his knapsack he drew a fine fiddle". I remember being a bit bemused by the line that went something like "The most fundamental way of learning to play the fiddle is to pick one up and find out where the notes are". Perhaps that was why I took up the concertina...

I think it got rather overshadowed by the UNESCO World Book & Copyright Day: http://portal.unesco.org/culture/en/ev.php...ECTION=201.html Oh, OK - there were a few people in Trafalgar Square too: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jsbCQVk...bxGw1AD907MOA00

This might be an example of the UK and US being "Two nations divided by a common language", as I'm confident that many more people in the UK would be familiar with the modern slang meaning and unfamilar with the older meaning of the word. I have heard the older meaning used very occasionally, but certainly not by anybody younger than myself (mid 50s) and even then usually in a self-consciously archaic way. Anyway Jim, thanks for the explanation (I'm always curious about etymology) and I hope that no offence was taken as none was intended. I genuinely thought that there might be an innocent Danish meaning of the word!

Wider than you might think, but that may be due to the popularity of London-based TV police dramas, such as "The Sweeney" and the more recent "Life on Mars". Etymology unknown, but I was first aware of its "unsavoury" use in the early 1970s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonce_(slang) Just out of interest, what does the word mean (if anything) in Danish? I was hoping that the SSI website might give some clues, but it doesn't... (With apologies for Thread Drift)

I do hope that "nonce" means something different in Danish to what it means in English vernacular...

Browsing the British Library's archive of 19th Century British newspapers (it's a subscription service that a lot of university libraries take), my attention was caught by a notice (in "The Graphic" for Saturday, May 11th, 1889) for "The Anglo-German Concertina Player's Companion" by C. Roylance. This stated that (the book) "will be found of great assistance to students of that somewhat difficult instrument". Was this a view that was generally held at the time? I'd always believed that the Anglo was popular amongst those with no formal musical training as an instrument that was quite easy to pick up and play by ear. Probably just an example of advertising "smoke & mirrors"?

Thanks, Greg! It's good for a beginner like me to have knowledgeable people around on this forum!

Wonder how much restoration work this would need? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CONCERTINA-Old-marke...1QQcmdZViewItem

Might it have "spoon" basses? Not that I've ever seen those other than on one-rows, mind...

Billy Harrison has now sadly died, and he did it, but in the English (well, Yorkshire) style. Review of a Musical Traditions tape (now available on CD for a tenner, I think): - http://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/harrison.htm I assumed that when bill_mchale said "play a Cello fiddle style", he meant "tucked under the chin"...

I do know, but ritual performance isn't the context of the discussion. I think most musicians would make a distinction between an instrument making a once-a-year ritual outing and one (like the harp) with a long history of year-round performance. If you have any evidence that the bodhran was used in ITM (as we are discussing it on this thread) more recently than the 1950s, I'd be genuinely interested in reading it. http://www.iol.ie/~ronolan/bodhran.html I'm not a bodhran hater, btw, I play one myself.

I'd have to disagree with you on the bodhran, which, although traditionally associated with the Wren Boys on St Stephen's Day, has only been used in ITM since the 1950s. Hm! Aren't the Wern Boys, like the Strawboys or Mummers, a part of Irish tradition? Cheers, John They are, but I thought it was generally accepted that the bodhran was popularised for widespread use in ITM (rather than purely for "ritual" use at one time of the year) by Sean O Riada?

I'd have to disagree with you on the bodhran, which, although traditionally associated with the Wren Boys on St Stephen's Day, has only been used in ITM since the 1950s.

A few weeks ago whilst in the waiting room at the dentist, "Bargain Hunt" was on the telly. One of the teams bought a decent-looking 30 key Lachenal anglo for £100 or so. The "experts" hadn't a clue about it (pronouncing it "Lack-an-all") and commenting "Does anybody still play these things"? It went for £75 at the auction! Wish I'd have been there...

I'm a leftie too, and although I play guitar and fiddle left-handed, it seems entirely natural to play concertina and melodeon right-handed. With all the instruments, it's my right hand that's actually fingering the notes of the melody most of the time. Does that make sense to any other lefties out there?

My Rochelle has just arrived, and I must say it looks like great value for money. Haven't had a chance to really play it as yet, but have tested all the notes and none stick or won't sound (although some need more air than others to do so). It's hard to see how you could possibly do better for the money. I suppose the trade-in deal only applies if you buy directly from Concertina Connection or another maker (like Tedrow) that specifically makes that offer? I bought mine from The Music Room. I suppose it won't hurt to ask them if I find I need to upgrade before too long - I see they're offering a secondhand Jackie at the moment, which suggests that they might consider part-ex....

Exactly. Which is why we now have three Morris organisations instead of one. Most movements suffer division and upheaval at some point in their histories. As I've already mentioned, Father Ken's attitude towards women dancing Morris was very widely held in Ring circles (it may be still) and I doubt very much if this would have altered had he been in favour of it. I do think that those who shared his views did so out of a passionately-held belief that they were doing the right thing for the future of the Morris. As it turns out, they were wrong - Morris is still reasonably healthy in most parts of the country, it's still developing and changing (rather than being preserved in aspic), and it's still thought ridiculous by a large percentage of the population. Just as a matter of interest, what do you personally think were Father Ken's reasons for being opposed to women dancing? I don't know the answer myself, although I've already suggested one or two possibilities.

So, if Mornington Crescent is a purely British phenomenon, how come there are versions played in many other countries, including the USA, eh? "In Washington, DC the Washington Metro subway system is used, and the Rhode Island Avenue-Brentwood station (on the Red Line) is the equivalent to Mornington Crescent. Farragut West station is the dreaded Dollis Hill equivalent." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mornington_Crescent_%28game%29

Just as well, considering he shared many a platform with Cecil Sharp, who also had no problem with women dancing the Morris. Whilst I don't share their views, I think that many of the older Morris Ring members felt that, if impressionable young lads saw Morris as a "girl's thing", they wouldn't take it up themselves and the Cotswold and NW traditions would "degenerate" to become indistinguishable from Carnival ("Fluffy") Morris. I'm sure that this (probably mistaken) belief was the driving force behind their apparent prejudice, rather than pure misogyny (although some were undoubtedly guilty of that, too).

Not unusual for his generation, though. I knew of certain Morris Ring sides who would refuse to dance in the same arena as another side, purely because they had a female musician. Perhaps Father Ken subscribed to the now discredited but once widely held belief that Morris was "a survival of pagan male fertility ritual" and as such, shouldn't be danced by women?