Marien

yes it is!!!

Here is promised track of "derierre chez nous" (a draft recording in a folk club). The track combines 3 tunes, le Valentinou, Auw Wijvendans and Derierre chez nous. the first and the last are traditional dance tunes from the Auvergne. The middle one is from Flanders. 20 valentinou - derriere chez nous.mp3 "Derierre chez nous" is similar to the tune Al attached above, but the one is all major and does not use minor scales. Marien

nice tune. It may sound a little oriental but in fact the scales in this Bourree fit perfectly in classical scales. Probably it is in another key but if it were in C it is something like this: The first part is in a major scale (like going up fom C D E F G A B C ) and the second part is in a minor key (like going back from C Bb Ab G F Eb D to C). edited to repair the wrong going down scale..

Yet another chord scheme is on this page - it is one page down from the start. Marien

Al's bourree is called "derriere chez nous". The way I know it is slightly different and less oriental but it is definitely the same tune from the Auvergne. I will add a set later today we recorded in januari - not on concertina but it is on fiddle, accordian and cyttern. It starts off with two different tunes. marien

A part of the Egypsian music uses oriental scales without using quart notes - there is an awful lot of oriental tunes that just use another scale - like C, C#, E, F, G, Ab, B, C eventually combined with the "usual" C scale. To my idea the quart scales are an asian influence (India) that is used in Arabic music especially for slow airs and songs to express certain moods. In a way this oriental scale C, C#, E, F, G, Ab, B, C is a variation of a major C scale. It is easy to play it on a diatonic instrument with just a few incidentals. Another example of such a "deviant" scale is a very commonlu used scale in european music before 1700 (so before Bach wrote his chord theory). The scale is mostly used in D tunes: D, E, F#, G, A, A#, C, D (or transposed to C: C D E F G Ab Bb C). This scale is typically used for music in the playford dancemaster era and a vefry common scale in court music in Western Europe from Portugal to Sweden. Also here, there are just 2 notes differing from the "usual" major scale - and scales are often combined going up in a usual C scale and going down in this deviant scale. Back to Arabia. Many modal dance tunes follow this oriental scale (and there are variants) in Turkish, Armenian, Palestinian, Macedonian, Iranian, Egyptian, Tunesian, Algerian and Moroccan tunes and all "Arabic" countries. Many countries have a living tradition related to this music due to the history od (sub populations of) these countries, like the Balcan, Spain, Italy and Portugal. Also, much music from the troubadours have north African influences and they brought these musical oriental flavours into France and further up north. Klezmer and Greek music are typically combining oriental scales with the classical major and minor scales. Hoping this helps, Marien

My favorit scheme for the chords differs from the one in Dirge's link... In I am playing the tune basically in Dm: I am using the following scheme: per bar: Dm | C | Bes | Am | Dm | C | Bes | Am | F | F | F | C | Am | Dm | Gm/Am | Dm | Best of luck, Marien

"Real" pirates in a computer game? I'm not sure you shouldn't be made to walk the plank for confusing fantasy with reality. As for really real pirate songs, is anyone here familiar with the music of Somalia? Jim, Late again - many "real" pirate tunes from the 1700 era are quite stubborn. I think there is nothing wrong to use them in a computer game. One of the best Russian folk songs (Korobushka) has been used for Super Mario. It is the one Alan Day calls the Tetris tune. Computer game tunes have something in common with pirate music - like syncopic 5/4 tunes - and that is that it is weird and making one kind of people nervous and it is addictive to the other kind of people. Not the regular shanty type of music though... Cheers, Marien

Thanks Leo, that is a very interesting bunch of addictive keeping me out of bed clips...

Here is a site that shows many kinds of music that played a role in WW2 as used by the germans. It contains all kinds of music - also nazi and german propaganda music (yagh) - but much more interesting jewish music in war time. The direct link is a reaction to a series of assaults in 1959 that culminated in the defacement of the newly reopened Synagogue in Cologne in 1959 / no concertina involved but don't miss it...

I'ld say any veneer on plywood (or solid mahogany) should do the job. If the veneer wood cracks easy it can be prepared with wood filler and shellac or something else. It fills the grain and makes the veneer strong across the nerves. After it is glued on the ends it will be safer to make the buttons holes and the fretwork of the ends without splitting pieces of veneer.

I suppose you will not eat your concertina. Interesting idea to make a vegetarian concertina but one question comes up: whether metal parts are vegetarian enough for your ideal concertina. In my view I would "go for" a "bio" instrument - also minimizing metal parts. Plastics are mostly derivations from oil - containing fossile animals - so I suppose that a veganist will not consider the use of any plastic part. I would be puzzled to find a decent biological material for reeds. It is obvious where the word `reed´ refers to real reeds, the same material as for bag pipe reeds. It will sound quite different and use lots of air - but it is the real ECO material. The joint between the bellows and one end could be made like for one single reed in the reed pan. With such a (wooden) joint, the bellows frame can be connected to an end - similar like pushing a reed in its slot) - hence, no glue and no end bolts are needed. Wooden buttons can be used with a hard wood cap. Many cheap bellows were made out of card board, paper and linen in stead of leather, and some of them are not bad at all. It should be possible to find a vegetarian glue (i.e. arabic gum). Bellows linen for organs can be used. No real leather is needed in the bellows. To avoid stiff corners - maybe goretex or other textiles made air tight with a special products (such as HG) could be a solution. For valves, pads and sampers you could use the same (goretex or textiles made air tight). If I would start a project to make a "bio concertina" that could survive myself. I would stick to some metal parts - at least for the reeds. Wooden levers (proper wood type) could be made of decent quality (castagniari does it). Springs and rivet pins would be metal. For the rest I think it is really possible to use non animal materials. I think it is possible to create a decent concertina - with a good action. It could even be very light weighted. These are just some thoughts - which I think could be worth experimenting with... Best of luck, Marien

I played Klezmer on the anglo in a band, but it has its limitations. The klezmer group I play with has a lot of tunes in D minor. This tuning fits on a C/G anglo - although (in the default lachenal/wheatstone key layout) I am missing some keys such as a high D on pull - so I sometimes have to leave out some notes or `improvise` to hide the feature of missing notes. For tunes in other keys it may be difficult to play the oriental scales (i.e. in E-minor or G flat or F-major. I prefer to play the Klezmer tunes on the Crane Duet concertina. It enables me to play any chord on the left hand, while playing the melody lines on the right hand side. It is fully chromatic without having to switch from left to right hand side for any note (as is often necessary on an EC). If you don't need chords then the english system enables you to play fully chromatic tunes, and many tunes can be played relatively fast, as you have 6 to 8 fingers for the melody line - whereas on a duet it is usually the right hand side only that plays melody - so compared to an EC you will have to move your 3 to 4 "melody" fingers to another posittion faster on a duet. Nevertheless I prefer the Duet for Klezmer music. Hoping this helps, Marien Lina

Just a hint if you are going to replace valves. I am not sure if you are going to do so, but if you do, take care to select the proper leather with similar flexibility and weight. In one of my tinas somebody once glued valves of a "wrong" leather in the reed pan, for the high reeds. These valves were too stiff. The result is that if I played a chord, these high notes were quiet while the other notes were relatively loud (the valves for the high note did not open)!! Also I had to pull quite strongly to get a sound for a solo high note. The only thing that helped was to replace valves with the proper leather Marien

Between my 7631056 piles of dots I coincidentally found a hand written copy of the tune. The tune name is Birkenburn - I used to play it in a scottish band called Callanish about 1993. Below is a slightly different version from thesession.org.

I agree - the tune is nice and if this kind of tune is your favorit, you tend to play it over and over again. Maybe this changes if you learn more tunes? Another beautiful tune I tended to keep playing on the anglo (when I started to play anglo) is called the lads of laoise Learn more tunes brings more variation...

Michel, Thanks again for the links. I agree that it is a contredans, but the word contredans as used in hollantsche boerenlieties (and also in your links) is quite a general description for many variations of country dances of that time in flanders and the netherlands. To my idea, the interesting part is how these tunes are related to differrent dances, and also how they are related to (for example) waltzes and horn pipes. There are clearly tunes that come very close to a waltz, a mazurka or a horn pipe. Although there is no reference in that time to a horn pipe, I think there were dances going that direction. These are mostly 6/4 and not 4/4. As for the waltz and the mazurka - there is no reference to a waltz or mazurka (that old) but some tunes are clearly 3/4 and very suitable to dance the waltz and some even have a regognisable mazurka nature. Here is such a 6/4 dutch jig of which I think it is one of those that developed to a hornpipe. Among the contredances in various sources there are clearly different dances such as jigs, slip jigs, bourrees, branles, menuets and rigoudons. The manuscripts and early prints give the idea of a very lively musical tradition with a lot of fast dances and a lot of dance occasions. These include remains of dance parties that were not really promoted by the establishment and took place in theaters, pubs and clubs. "Decent" people were not expected to visit these "pagan" happenings. In Holland it wasn't rare (back then) that federals were put out of their job when they had visited such a "scandalous" dance party. It is a shame that many tune books in that time were destroyed by the church - like in Ireland. It is this partly destroyed old music which I think is much more interesting than the slow psalms where the same melodies have been used for, or the "formal" dull performances for the court of the prince of orange. Behind these signs of sleepy music there is another world of music for pubs, clubs and dance feasts. Most of the things that are left may be compared with recoprdings of Charlie Parker when he had to play his bebop "the white way" for the radio companies. But there are enough tunes that sing their own song while you play them. It is fun to find old tunes that invite you to play them with fire...

Thanks for the links Michel!

Here is an old dutch tune from 1700. Original dots are in 4/4. "Annetje was achttien jaren" To me this has another feel, but could this be a hornpipe? Marien See below for abc scores =============================== X:472 T:Annetie was achtien jaren B:Oude en Nieuwe Hollantse Boeren Lieties en Contredansen - Sesde Deel M:C K:Ddor d2e2~^c2A2|f2g2a2A2|d2e2f2gf|~e3dd4|d^cde~^c2A2|fefga2A2| d^cde fagf|~e3dd4|a2d2g2c2|f2~e2f4|c2_BcA2a2|~g3ff4| d^cdef2a2|gfed~^c2A2|f2a2gagf|~e3dd4|a2dag2cg|f2~e2f4| c_BcA defg|~g3ff4|d^cdef2a2|gfed~^c2A2|fgaA gafg|~e3dd4|]

In 17th century there are a lot of slower jigs in the Netherlands (6/4). I also found quite a few 6/8 and 3/2 tunes. In the traditional dance world overhere people told me that many of them are supposed to be transformed into hornpipes or "horlepiep" as we call them.

Nice tunes Al. Just a note, I think minor tunes are not rare in every tradition. I think that most breton tunes are minor tunes, same for east european tunes (if they are nto oriental). Many old dutch, flemish, french and english tunes (like hte ones in the playford dance master) combine minor and major scales within one tune. NOPE, on the contrary. Keep them coming. Marien.

Thanks Geoff. After all it wasn't that nasty (compared to your Jeffries experience) and all reeds needed just a minimal change of pitch. The reeds are very clean now and have been tuned the proper way. It is not only the chord play but also the lovely sound of the sole reeds that ask for a perfect tuning. So it will not sleep in the car again, and if I'll visit the cliffs of Mohair I'll leave it in the car, eeer in the self catering...

David, It may be so that the internet and globalisation threathens regional variations of tunes. The net gives a bulk of tunes (not just ITM). So, it is not only RSI that is threatening us, so that gives us 2 good reasons to reduce using the internet. Picking tunes up in local sessions, may be a "better" way to learn them - and noticing the music can differ from one session to another, not just caused by different regions or instruments. But the global force is not just the internet. There already was a globalising influence of known bands. Such as wanting to play it the same way in the way your favorite ITM heroes plays it (especially when that is the only version you know). When I play ITM on the other side of the North Sea people often ask me: So you must know the (fill out the name of any famous Irish band or player). They don't know other versions and the worse thing is when musicians you play with only know one version and they are going to tell you that you are playing it "wrong". Yaghh, it's like playing in a cover band.... On the other hand, it seems okay to me that famous bands and internet archives are a good source to promote ITM. It is a good starting point for new players to get to know ITM - especially for those who do not have the opportunity to visit local sessions - no matter whether it concerns the Orkneys, Waxford, Mayo, Brest, Offaly, Inverness or Hawaii. Eventually the really interested people will be crazy enough to get to know the local sessions and tune variations in Celtica - wherever that may be. Marien

Of course Jim, real pirates are the ones making good business with computer games for innocent kids... As for the music I must say that the maker found a tune that fits the culture of pirates "somewhere deep in the carribeans".

Dirge, Jee, it must be WINTER in New Zealand... My Crane Lachenal had to be retuned completely last winter - It was my own fault ( ). After a late gig was tired and I left the instrument in the car only one night while it was freezing. So, inside the chambers, the temperature was decreasing. Water dew got on the reeds. Afterwards - unaware of this - I left it in the house in its closed case a couple of days. Result: corrosion and retuning! So, could your problem have anything to do with your winter? (extreme temperatures, winds, the rain season, sun burn, frost or other climate options???) Best of luck, Marien