Larry Stout

I just looked on the album cover-- it's Ian Robb. No wonder it's so good.

Two of my favorites are CD's of contra dance music: "Contratopia" and the CD by the Old Sod Band. Great danceable stuff played on an English.

We didn't have quite so many parts or the singers when we did it at Folk College this past May (a sort of trial run for NESI, perhaps). Lots of fun. Glad I had the opportunity even though I won't be able to make it to NESI until either my next sabbatical or retirement.

I play an EC and took up a Crane about a year ago. The EC still gets most of my playing time. My EC playing hasn't had any il effects, but the Crane subroutine is in the barely beta, still buggy, stage. When I tried an anglo some years ago I couldn't make any sense out of it; I found EC more logical and I like the sound better. The Crane is also logical. Now if I could only get the bass clef for left hand, treble for right hand thing down and get used to playing chords in one hand while the other hand does the melody. I suspect that it helps to have one of the kinds of keyboard down solidly before attempting more than one system.

Alistair Anderson's tutor also gives a graphic which helps with understanding of how variation in bellows pressure ican be used to provide the drops and raises which give lift and life to dance music. The shape of the notes as well as the spacing between them contributes to nuance.

Alistair Anderson plays both. The CD Grand Chain lists one cut with both Northumbrian Pipes and concertina, though I don't remember if both are playing at the same time.

Nice clip. He looks like he's playing with a technique close to Simon Thoumire's: the thumb straps loose and the hands at about a 45 degree angle to the columns. I also notice that his hands do not touch the instrument, only the thumbs and pinky fingers. His fingers have a high arch and bounce high off the keys as well. I did find the noise of the action a bit distracting-- the sound of the keys almost adds percussion to this clip. I think that the instrument in that clip is a Wheatstone model 21. I have one which is the loudest and punchiest EC that I've played. Edited to correct Simon Thoumire's name.

Yes. I play for dancing, though not for Scottish dancing. I think there is enough punch, though I suppose you'd have to ask the dancers I play for. I enjoy playing strathspeys and hornpipes, particularly the dotted ones with lots of articulation. Certainly I have heard other players of EC who did get plenty of punch for Scottish dance music (Gene Morrow comes to mind) or for other forms needing it (Alistair Anderson and Rachel Hall come to mind). My impression is that historically the EC was more prevalent in Scotland than the anglo. Could someone more certain of the facts on that either support or refute that impression?

Very nice! Many English concertina players may be using longer legato phrases on the bellows because they can and they like the effect. Putting punch in the playing involves both bellows control and a certain amount of stacatto fingering. Adding appropriate harmony (something I'm certainly not good at yet) takes more thought. Is it possible that the accenting in Anglo playing comes from a different set of muscles than the accenting in English playing: on anglo it seems to come from upper body (chest, upper arms) and on EC from wrist and hands? A similar thing happens in bowing a fiddle-- delicacy in bowing comes from the wrist and hand, heavy accent more from the arm. Shuffle bowing tends to be from the arm, decorations like the rapid triplet with bowing reversal and the snap found in Scottish fiddle styles use the wrist and hand.

I play English most of the time. When I decided I wanted to try a duet it was the Crane, not the Maccann, which looked logical to me. Now it I could only find twice the time to practice so I could master both systems.

So I can listen to it all at leisure while you drum your fingers and glare at the mailbox. :P The drumming and glaring are over-- it's arrived! Now all I need is several hours free to listen.

Slip jigs are in 9/8 time. This particular one is, I think, Scottish. We played it for the ECD Cecelia Swirl a couple of years ago. It's kind of obscure, but it's a nice tune.

My current favorites: O'Carolan's Draught Bigg Market Lasses (learned from the CD Border Directors, from the Blue Moon Band, in Am but very chromatic) The Mathematician by Scott Skinner (uses the whole range of the EC) Friendly Visit (a hornpipe) Manor Royal March by Alan Day picked up from this list Time of Day (a slip jig) Belgian Breakfast also picked up from this list Joys of Wedlock (a jig which is much easier to play on concertina than it is on fiddle) Plus a whole bunch of others.

Done! They appeared on the web page today.

I'd love to get a copy. Any word on when Button Box will have them for sale? Will I miss out on the first shipment because I can't get to NESI?

I took up concertina (EC) to rewire my brain when I turned 55. I suppose that worked. My inspiration came from recordings by Alistair Anderson and from the playing of Mike Voss (for ECD and contra) at a dance camp on Lake Cumberland, KY. My goal was to be able to play hornpipes for my own pleasure and to play for ECD. Now that I can do that I'd like to be able to do multipart harmony.

Another possible distinction: Most (but not all) concertinas have a single reed sounding when you play a note. Most (but not all) accordions have multiple reeds, often intentionally tuned slightly off eachother. To my ears a concertina has a much purer tone as a result. The classification based on whether the buttons are parallel or perpendicular to the direction of bellows travel (and the bisonoric-unisonoric distinction) affect how you build and play the instrument; the single reed versus multiple reed distinction has a more direct influence on how the instruments sound.

Here it is-- If you use abc plus this version will give the 7 line version. I used abcm2ps to do the processing. X:1 T:The Flying Cloud T: Gallop M:2/4 L:1/8 %%staves (1 2) V: 1 %name="right hand" %clef=treble V: 2 %name="left hand" %clef=bass %K:F clef=C3 stafflines=8 K:F clef=G4 stafflines=7 [V:1] A/B/|cc ff|F F/G/ Ac|c/d/B/G/ Ec| A2 F a/b/| [V:2] z|"F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]| "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]|"Gm"C,[G,B,][G,B,][G,B,]|"F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]| [V:1]c'c' f'f'|f f/g/ ac'| c'/d'/b/g/ ec'| f2 z:|: [V:2] "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]| "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]|"Gm"C,[G,B,][G,B,][G,B,]|"F"F,[A,C]F,:|: [V:1] C/D/|[CE][DF][EG][FA]|[G2B2] z c/d/| [ce][df][eg][fa] | [g2b2] z a/b/| [V:2] z|C,/C/C,/C/ C,/C/C,/C/|"C7"C,/C/C,/C/ C, z| C,/C/C,/C/ C,/C/C,/C/|C,/C/C,/C/ C, z| [V:1] c'c' f'f'|f f/g/ ac'| c'/d'/b/g/ ec'| f2 z:|: [V:2] "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]| "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]|"Gm"C,[G,B,][G,B,][G,B,]|"F"F,[A,C]F,:|: [V:1] [K:Bb]f|=efef| g2 fd|f2 ec|g2 ff| [V:2] [K:Bb]z|"Bb"B,[DF][DF][DF]|"Bb"B,[DF][DF][DF]|"F7"A,[CEF][CEF][CEF]|"Bb"B,[DF][DF][DF]| [V:1] =efef| gfbd|fegf|B2 z2:| [V:2] "Bb"B,[DF][DF][DF]|"Bb"B,[DF][DF][DF]|"F7"A,[CEF][CEF][CEF]|"Bb"B,[DF]B,2:| [V:1]c/=e/|f c2 d/=e/|f c2 d/=e/|f c2 d/=e/|ff/f/f g/f/| [V:2]z|F,[A,C] F,[b,D]|F,[A,C] F,[b,D]|F,[A,C] F,[b,D]|[F,A,C]z z2| [V:1] =efef| gfbd|fegf|B2 z c/=e/| [V:2] "Bb"B,[DF][DF][DF]|"Bb"B,[DF][DF][DF]|"F7"A,[CEF][CEF][CEF]|"Bb"B,[DF]B, z| [V:1]c/=e/|f c2 d/=e/|f c2 d/=e/|f c2 d/=e/|ff/f/f g/f/| [V:2]z|F,[A,C] F,[b,D]|F,[A,C] F,[b,D]|F,[A,C] F,[b,D]|[F,A,C]z z2| [V:1] =efef| gfbd|fegf|B2 z [K:F] A/B/| [V:2] "Bb"B,[DF][DF][DF]|"Bb"B,[DF][DF][DF]|"F7"A,[CEF][CEF][CEF]|"Bb"B,[DF]B,[K:F] z| [V:1] A/B/|cc ff|F F/G/ Ac|c/d/B/G/ Ec| A2 F a/b/| [V:2] z|"F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]| "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]|"Gm"C,[G,B,][G,B,][G,B,]|"F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]| [V:1]c'c' f'f'|f f/g/ ac'| c'/d'/b/g/ ec'| f2 z:|: [V:2] "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]| "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]|"Gm"C,[G,B,][G,B,][G,B,]|"F"F,[A,C]F,:|: [V:1] C/D/|[CE][DF][EG][FA]|[G2B2] z c/d/| [ce][df][eg][fa] | [g2b2] z a/b/| [V:2] z|C,/C/C,/C/ C,/C/C,/C/|"C7"C,/C/C,/C/ C, z| C,/C/C,/C/ C,/C/C,/C/|C,/C/C,/C/ C, z| [V:1] c'c' f'f'|f f/g/ ac'| c'/d'/b/g/ ec'| f2 z:| [V:2] "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]| "F"F,[A,C][A,C][A,C]|"Gm"C,[G,B,][G,B,][G,B,]|"F"F,[A,C]F,:|

The 8 line version is a bit hard to read-- I think I like the 7 line with treble clef better. A grand staff with treble and bass clefs joined with a single ledger line between them for middle C might be easier to read, but I'm not so good on bass clef. I don't see very well, so ledger lines don't give me quite enough visual cue on the note-- a more stable staff will be easier for me. The idea here came from the second example on http://www.violadamore.com/scordatura which uses a 9 line staff. The lower end of the instrument is on the bottom of the staff and the top is on top, just like in the 7 line treble version for T-T EC. It is a little confusing in the middle range. I'll try it for tenor-treble arrangements, but I don't think there are enough of us playing those instruments from written arrangements for a new notation to catch on.

Some might prefer K:F clef=G4 stafflines=7 which uses a treble clef with the top matching the usual staff and the bottom a fifth down, so matching the fingering on the bottom of a tenor treble.

On another thread I suggested that music arranged for a tenor-treble EC might fit nicely on a staff with 8 lines with middle C on the 3rd line and an alto clef (C clef) marking that line. This way the top five lines of the staff are the same as the treble clef and the bottom has the lines on the left hand, spaces on the right pattern and goes only a little bit below the staff. I figured out (fairly quickly) how to do this using abc plus and applied it to the Flying Cloud Gallop, which was posted here some time ago. I had typeset the arrangement from the 19th century using abc plus so I could experiment with different ways of playing the arrangement (including a version with the left hand in bass clef and the right in treble for a Crane duet-- I still haven't mastered playing it yet). To get this version I used K:F clef=C3 stafflines=8 for the key designation. This version has two voices rather separated-- it's just the piano version with the left hand in one voice and the right in the other. FlyingCloudGallopTT.pdf

I think I'll move this to the Tunes forum, since we've moved rather far from the original topic. Check there for an example. Larry

Classical guitar music (which is right in the range for a tenor-treble) is written using ledger lines below the staff on a standard treble clef. Music for viola in the same range uses an alto clef. Writing parts for baritone (or bass) concertina using treble clef and then sounding an octave or two lower makes changing from one range of concertina to another easy-- I'm rather glad I don't have to use bass clef when I play my baritone in the rare occasions when I'm playing in a multipart group (recently at Folk College-- thanks to Rachel Hall for organizing the concertina band there). This is rather like the tradition of using scordatura for viola d'amore--- the music is written as if it were to be played on a violin, even though the strings are tuned to a D minor chord rather than GDAe. That tradition seems to ignore the fact that the viola d'amore has 7 strings rather than 4, but recognize that most viola d'amore players were violinists playing the instrument to get a different tone color. There is some historical viola d'amore music written using a staff with 10 lines instead of 5. A similar mechanism might help for the tenor-treble concertina, perhaps marking clearly with a C-clef where middle C is, making sure it is on a line (perhaps the third line up in an 8 line staff??). I think one could do that in abc plus. I'll have to give it a try.

There's a nice recording of this tune by Alistair Anderson and Joe Hutton: cut 6 on the cd The Grand Chain as the middle tune in the medley Robertson's reel, The Great North Run, The Grand Chain.

I think that the first tunes I played were Winster Gallop, Thady You Gander, and Steamboat. We were playing these rather often for dances and I wanted a different sound (or in the case of Thady You Gander a different stress on the muscles--- driving the dancers to a run with bellows was less stressful than the uneven rhythm at high speed on a fiddle).