wes williams

There is really nothing further I can add. There should be enough evidence here to convince almost every reader of the research into date of 'invention' and naming of the concertina pointing to about 1833. What does amaze me is Goran's only evidence is based on his interpretation of a "third hand" 1990s quote of a 1941 book, quoting an 1839 patent. And yet he even dismisses a "within living memory" quote if provided by anybody else! Howard: Many thanks for the pictures. The spring beyond the lever/pad has echos in German construction, so perhaps this was an experiment to try a mechanism style that had been seen in an early accordion?

One possible answer to your question lies in Stephen's 1999 Michaelstein paper: but Stephen may wish to change this if he has any more recent information. Surely the title indicates the early age of this piece with its mention of the symphonion? Eulenstein, a German Jews Harp virtuoso, was associated with Wheatstone during his early 'Faraday' lectures c.1830. Apart from a couple of trips back to Europe, he remained in England until 1847. Next wild speculation?

Goran I may misunderstand your question, but that advert connects the two: Master G Regondi, the celebrated performer on the guitar, assisted by his Father Signor Regondi, has the honour of acquainting the Nobility and the Gentry that he intends to give two Musical Entertainments on the Guitar and Wheatstone's Patent Concertina at Mr Del Vecchio's Rooms, 26 Westmoreland St.

I've replied on the previous thread that I have no knowledge of when the reed types changed, if the changeover overlapped, or if it was model related. To repeat also from that thread, no Wheatstone records exist from late 1891 to mid 1910 (instruments approx 21354 - 24999). The Wayne collection has these notes: C101 Standard “By Her Majesty’s...” label on the earliest known Wheatstone “Aeola” No 22669, c 1898. C102 This instrument has two oval paper labels: On the left—hand end: “Wheatstone & Co, Patentees and —23090— Manufacturers, 20 Conduit St. London W”, and on the right: “C. Wheatstone & Co. Inventors, Patentees & Manufacturers, 15 West St Charing X Road, London WC”. The instrument, a Wheatstone Aeola No 23090, c.1901, is a rare “comma” fretwork model, the earliest -form of the octagonal Aeola and the first appearance of the “West S.” label, and has a fascinating mix of label styles and addresses, showing the period of transition from Conduit St to West St. premises. Neil also noted (Wheatstone Story): Upon the introduction of their 'Aola'in 1898, Wheatstones devised a new 'long scale' format of reed bed, of slimmer, narrower form and with a proportionately longer reed tongue, which was considered to offer improved voicing, tone and attack.

Paul, I have no information about what kind of overlap may have occurred between the two types of reed, or if the type was model related. We will have to wait until the earlier records are published to see if there is anything in them. But given that we have this gap of nearly twenty years in the records, its something we will probably need to establish from owners reports.

Many thanks to all of you, From your replies, its already looking like rivetted reeds changed to screwed reeds between 21445 and 22961, so it would be useful to know which type are in your 220002, Red. You'd then be either the proud owner of one of the last rivetted, or one of the earliest screwed reeds. You can also compare your instrument with the photo that Pete kindly posted, and see if you can see any differences. Pete's instrument has the usual fretwork pattern, but Goran mentions 'pinhole' which is a much smaller, less open pattern.

Thanks Goran, This period in Wheatstone history (1892-1910) is one where many changes seem to have occurred (Aeola introduced; Anglos, Duets and screwed reeds reintroduced) and it would be nice to try to establish when these changes first appear from instrument numbers. Did Edward Senior retire before he died and leave the firm in control of his sons, or did they have to wait until after his death? Kenneth Chidley said that his father, Edward Junior, introduced the Aeola in its usual form about 1902, but it would be nice to confirm this, and see if there was anything unusual happening before this.

I've held off replying since I was hoping someone else could do better. The 1895 date is likely to be when it was newly purchased. Unfortunately your instrument is in the Wheatstone record 'black hole', which stretches from December 1891 (No 21353) to 1910 (No 25000) where no records exist. Sorry! The only thing I can tell you is that it would have been made at Wheatstone's Conduit Street premises (they moved c.1905), and Edward Chidley Senior was still at the head (died 1899). It would be useful if you could tell us more about it and its features, so we have some record of an instrument of this 'lost' period.

I've always been hesitant over this quote. Randy Merris (Tutor Bibliography at www.maccann-duet.com ) gives it as .. . . . and was introduced to Public notice in June 1838. The first instrument was sold to Capt. Gardner of the 2nd Life Guards, it was then called the “Symphonian” with bellows, and not until December 27th of that year, was it named the Concertina. so I've always assumed 'that year' means 1838. But could this 1838 have been a typo for 1833? Public notice in 1833 would fit much better with the 1834 Regondi tour. Nice one, Stephen!

From ICA Newsletter No.144, June 1967: The Dumfries Concertina Band For much of this account we also express gratitude to "The Musician" of the Salvation Army. The Dumfries Band is the only concertina band in Scotland and was established fifty years ago. The original photo shows sixteen members, and there are now fourteen. Several founder members survive, and must take pride in the continued existance of the band. Past leaders have made notable original contributions to the S.A. repertoire of Marches and pieces for Songster Brigades. ------------------------------ CONCERTINA BAND JUBILEE On the week-end of April 22nd, the Salvation Army held a Festival at the Bristol Citadel, the Concertina Bands from Doncaster and Plymouth joining that at Bristol for the occasion. We are indebted to Jim Floyd for a first-hand account of the two days of playing, and to several members for copies of the S.A. Journal - The Musician, which contained a detailed article on the Doncaster Band. The Doncaster Band was formed in 1917, soon growing to twenty-seven members, but new reduced to fourteen. It uses entirely 'English' Concertinas and plays from brass band parts. This resulted in the sound being a tone higher, and of recent years players have bad their instruments tuned to correspond with those of the brass band, and in current low pitch, which is a particular advantage for congregational singing, and would enable then to mingle with brass players. The Plymouth Band was formed in 1892, and now numbers twelve members. Its music is arranged from brass band scores. Like Doncaster Band, Plymouth has travelled widely, but has had the unique experience for an all woman party, of playing a programme in Dartmoor Prison. Bristol Band is the oldest dating from 1882, and now with nine members. The music is all specially arranged by the leader, and although the band now confines itself to indoor activities, it plays a very big part in Corps life. The programmes were spread over two days, each band contributing not only items from its repertoire, but also vocal solos, items on handbells, and duets and trios on the piano.

Helen (and anybody else); The 'Concertina' Magazines are advertised as a set at: www.wongawillicolonialdance.org.au If only there was the same for C&S too!! best wishes ..wes

Frank and his wife Doris were also leading lights of the ICA for many years; Frank as Secretary from 1959, and Doris as Treasurer from 1958. It's probably true to say that the ICA wouldn't be here today if it hadn't been for the amount of time that they gave towards it. I met Frank only once, but I can echo Richard's quote above and say what a "real gentleman" he was. I'd also like to add support of Randy's praise of Richard Evan's fine magazine, a set of which were one of the few things that the ICA had when I started the archive. I regularly re-read them. I believe they are still available in reprint (Richard?) and a set would make a fine Christmas present for anybody trying to catch up on concertina history - and much more!

Ed, Paul, To make it even more complicated, there were two forms of rivetted reeds according to Neil Wayne ("Final Edit" p38/9): Changes also occur in the reeds of these early Wheatstone instruments : all instruments after No 1320 (September 1847) have brass reed tongues instead of the nickel tongues used earlier, and the early squared—end reed beds are replaced by rounded—end beds after instrument No 1775. Large iron rivets, rather than screwed brass retaining pads are used to secure reed tongues in instruments No 7339, 8751, and 10552, during 1854—1857, and smaller ones are used in later concertinas such as No 19252 (1875) and 20950 (1886). So the change could have happened in the earlier period, or later. Anyone have a photo of a large rivet that Ed could compare with? Neil also puts the change from 'His' Majesty's to 'Her' as occuring between #1320 and #1339. But 418 is listed as a 48 button instrument in one of the early ledgers, and I don't recall seeing any batch numbers much above 200.

The usual number range for these kind of reeds is somewhere around 18,000 to 24,000. Its a bit too long to go into all the 'why & but' details here, but Wheatstone used these rivetted reeds exclusively for a while from the late 1860s onward.

I couldn't resist adding this item from the October 1966 ICA Newsletter that I've just scanned. Is it history? I think so! CONCERTINAS AT CARNEGIE HALL Carnegie Recital Hall is the premier auditorium for serious music making in the U.S.A. Here on 26th September Allan Atlas, a 23 year old student of musicology at New York University gave a recital on his 48 key English Concertina. Allan Atlas already has his B.A.degree of Hunter College, and his Master's Degree of New York, and that a musician of such ability should cultivate the playing of the concertina is a wonderful tribute to the qualities of this neglected instrument. His programme included works by Vivaldi, Mozart, Bach and Paganini, proving the contention that the violin works of the great masters are ideal as concertina studies. Modernists are represented by Bloch (1930?) and Charles Schwartz (1966), while the specifically concertina music of Regondi was also included. Allan Atlas is a student of Boris Matusewitch.

Kurt, Its one of the things starting to be revealed by the old ICA Newsletters that I'm slowly scanning. There were still large festivals of meetings of many of the SA bands in the 1960s. These newsletters will eventually be available in the members area of the ICA website. best wishes ..wes

Frank, 'Saddle' action was used by Wheatstone too, see the #1701 pictures mentioned earlier to check we mean the same thing. You need to look at the reed shoes - if they are square ended on the inside tip (#1701 is), its not a Lachenal. Wheatstone went to round end reed shoes from about #1800 upwards. How many buttons? I'm interested in anything with a number this low.... Howard .. Anything would be very interesting.... best wishes ..wes

These were the early concertinas formerly in Neil Wayne's collection, so they may be in the Horniman Museum now. Item : Number(s) : Key & Type : Date of sale, where available C1517 : 32 : 24 English : Probably as early as 1833 C1518 : 58 : 57 Prototype : A “double concertina” C153 : 72 : 36 English C1515 : 103 : 33 English C1 : 123 : 32 English : 1 June 1840, Miss. Ricketts C1516 : 165 : 33 English : 20 Nov 1837, Hon. Mrs C Goulbourne C3 : 224 : 32 English : 22 3une 1838, Miss Binfield C154 : 244 : 48 English : 4th Oct 1839, A J Ellis (also No 1320) C2 : 254 : 32 English C5 : 546 : 50 English : 25th Oct 1842 J M Cripps Esq Jnr C7 : 563 : 44 English : 20th Dec 1843 Mrs W Shelton C11 : 578 : 48 English C155 : 581/580 : 32 English : 28th Sept 1843 Wood & Co C208 : 584 : 33 English : Miss M Fitzhugh C10 : 586 : 38 English : 9th Oct 1846 John Goldie Esq C78 : 677 : 48 English : 13th Oct 1843 Mr J A Novello (Mr Fentom) C156 : 773/698 : 44 English : (No entry, either number) C250 : 878 : 32 English : 26th June 1845 Mrs Pickering C9 : 940/995 : 48 English : 22 Dec 1846 Lady Clinton C4 : 967 : 48 English : 28th July 1845 Mr Chas Hale C8 : 993 : 48 English : 17th June 1845 Trevelyan Esq C200 : 1012 : 48 English : 11th Sept 1845 Hon’ble E Woollester. C76 : 1016 : 48 English : 22nd Sept 1845 Cramer & Co C158 : 1056 : 48 English : 10th Jan 1846 Hamburgh Esq (Fullerton) C159 : 1161/1131 : 48 English : 12th Sept 1846 Capt. Chas Stanley C16 : 1313 : 32 Bass C157 : 1320 : 48 English : 10th Sept 1847 A J Ellis (also 244) C152 : 1389 : 43 Tenor : 9th Sept 1847 C Taylor Esq Unfortunately its not easy to show a table on this forum - hope you can read this. Photos of one of the last of the 'hand built' types (#1701) can be seen in the article on baffles at www.maccann-duet.com.

The 'CD' isn't generally available, even to members. Its produced to protect the archive against loss ( we don't want another disaster like Concertina & Squeezebox Magazine!) . But individual items are available to ICA members. As suggested by John Nixon above - drop me an email and we'll see what we can sort out depending on what you require. best wishes ..wes

This is the Wheatstone factory at Duncan Terrace, which closed down about 1961. The chap who plays the concertina is Harry Minting, who was the last manager at Wheatstone. best wishes ..wes

Some recent research has thrown up the possibility that there were two 'Shakespeares' making concertinas. Thomas Shakespeare was active from about 1884 onwards at various addresses in Oakley Street, Lambeth; but from the mid 1900's to the mid 1920's there was a J.Shakespeare of Camberwell Road. Can anybody with a Shakespeare have a look at their labels and tell me anything to help? Thanks ..wes

Remember that the price list in the link above is 1884 or later. Note Lachenal considered the Edeophone to be a different instrument, thus they advertise 'The Edeophone', The English','The Anglo' and 'The Duet' on a handbill. As recommended in another thread, read Stephen Chambers 'Louis Lachenal: Engineer and Concertina Manufacturer' in Free Reed Journal Volume 1. Ace concertina player and prime mover in that area, see Maccann: Concertinist's Guide at www.maccann-duet.com . Recorded on cylinders in the period 1900-1905, but not known to be issued or still exist. You've used up your allocation of questions for this week!

Just found that I don't have to write a book to answer Goran: http://www.concertina.net/images_lachenal_...ure_outside.jpg It was here all the time! ..wes

I thought about buying it, so haven't replied til now. I think its a German made anglo - this is suggested by the unusual positions of the screws. The chamfered edges are very like those made by Hess, although I haven't seen anything like the same in what they made. But it looks very nicely made for a German construction instrument. Anybody else any ideas? best wishes ..wes

Jim: Metal ends were an optional extra at extra cost, like most models. Note my reply says 'typified' as most are ebony ended, and that earlier ones were different. Goran: So many questions! I don't have time to write a book to answer them. You will have to wait until someone involved with researching Lachenal history reaches a point where they can write something detailed which can be properly published. The Edeo was a 'Registered Design' which has its own registration number and prevents copying. A modern example is the Coca-cola bottle. See http://www.bl.uk/services/information/pate...ts/designs.html. Lachnal made many different models. 'New', 'Excelsior' and 'Inimitable' are only three of them. There are others such as 'Popular', 'Paragon' and 'Non-pareil'. best wishes ..wes