Roger Hare

[1] This sounds like good medicine to me... [2] Lilypond? What I really wanted to ask however, was "How do these scanners cope with hand-written scores?".

I think you can import MIDI (.mid), XML (.xml) and Noteworthy (.nwc) files into ABC. Is that any help? I suspect not...☹️

I completely agree. I encountered the error while plundering some of that 'valuable abc notation' for new tunes, (which I do all the time). The reverse situation (slur used as a tie), and the (fairly common) mis-representation of a triplet as '(abc' (for example) are usually easy to spot and fix, but in this particular instance, there does seem to be an ambiguity arising from the 'hazy' use of the hyphen which was/is happening often enough to make me a little restless as it didn't seem quite so easy to decide what the original transcriber was aiming for. My own software is reasonably laissez-faire in its approach to the format of the ABC input(*) - all it needs to get at is the actual musical note - the surrounding structure such as note duration, key, meter, bar lines, start/end repeats, etc. is pretty much irrelevant. This particular instance - where a tie is misused as a slur is (I think) the only instance where the input really should be spot-on in order to stop my software from barfing - even so, it produces output which can be fixed with a little 'hand-editing'. (I think that addresses AH's point which I just saw? I hope so...) (* In the first instance, it was written to be fairly picky, but fortunately, willy-nilly, it's turned out to be pretty forgiving/robust...) . Hah! I never thought of that! Stick with bold-faced then, and I don't mind how you spell italicised...😎 As I said, now that we seem to have established that there isn't something really subtle going on here, I think I'm just going to assume a-b means (ab)...

Aye, maybe I should have avoided the "s and just bold-faced or italicised the hyphens, not included them in quotes... Aye, it was a careful reading of the standard, and the thought that the hyphen was probably a mistake, which prompted the question in the first place - I was bothered about whether I was somehow 'missing' something, possibly buried deep in the standard - away from the definition of tie and slur.... [1] Ah! there I must beg to differ. This 'problem' arose when my own software produced strange results because of these hyphens. Frigging software to accommodate erroneous ABC code is not a good idea IMO. I really don't see that I should fanny about coding stuff into my software to deal with other folks mistakes(*). Programs should interpret the standard as strictly as possible (difficult - the ABC language definition is a little ambiguous in places). This includes the programs most ABC users use on a daily basis (abcm2ps, abc2midi, abc2abc, etc.), and also more modest personal efforts like my own. [2] By all means - Software that allows users to create and manipulate abc notation should warn users if they attempt to misuse the standard - point out the way around the mistake, and ideally, disallow the misuse... Thanks for the input(s) - it's all helped me sort out what is (probably) going on here. Whatever, after the discussion, I'll be interpreting these hyphens as a 'mistake' and either deleting them, or re-interpreting (and re-writing) them as slurs. ----------------------- (*) Actually, it's not really an option in purely practical terms - if you think about it, incorrect coding can manifest itself in a potentially infinite number of ways, so my own programs would have to become infinitely large to cope with it all - no thanks...😎

Don't think so? There are already accompaniment chords in there, so the original transcriber knew about them, and the highlighted couplets play back as if the "-" simply wasn't there. That was my thought on first seeing this one, but although I've often seen a tie written as a slur (eg: A-A written as (A A) ), I've not seen a slur written as a tie (eg: (A-B) written as A-B ) - not so that it actually 'works' and produces the curved line in the output, anyway. That tie written as a slur can really screw things up on playback with some software (Trad Musicien, from memory)... Like you suggest, I think it's a mistake, and the original transcriber was so unconcerned they didn't bother to fix it, even when the curved line didn't appear in the output. I'm not seeing it very often, but often enough to be bothered - was I missing something? It's relevant to me because it can affect the output from some of my own software, and I needed to fix it. It looks as if the fix is to simply delete the spurious "-" whenever it appears. Thanks both.

A very simple question about ABC usage. I sometimes see two different notes joined by a "-". Can't be a tie because the notes are different. I don't think it can be intended to be a slur because itdoesn't appear as such in the generated score.Any ideas please on what the intended purpose of this "-" might be? The standard is clear about what constitutes a tie or a slur - this usage seems to contradict both these definitions.There are three examples in the short ABC script below.Thank you.---------------------------------------------------------------------X:1T:Rights of Man, TheM:4/4L:1/8Q:1/4=130K:Em|: GA | "Em" (3BcB (3ABA (3GAG (3FGF | EFGA B2 e-f | gfed edcB | "Am" cBAG "B7" A2 GA | "Em" (3BcB (3ABA (3GAG (3FGF | EFGA B2 e-f | gfed "B7" Bg (3fgf | "Em" e2 E2 E2 :||: ga | "Em" babg efga | babg e2 fe | "D" d^cde fefg | afdf a2 g-f | "Em" eBeg "D" fdfa | "Em" gfga bgef | gfed "B7" Bg (3fgf | "Em" e2 E2 E2:|

Thanks! It's quite some time since I had a 'build-it-yourself' breakfast in 'The Cafe on the Pier'. Maybe it's time for a return visit to Old Harwich...😎 Do you (or anyone else) know if there is a 'traditional boats' presence at this festival (I will track down the organisers and ask them direct, when I get a moment...)? The last time I was in Old Harwich there were 3-4 traditional boats hanging off the pontoons

I'm in Manchester, not Polokwane, but there are several examples of South African tunes in Volume 2 of Dan Worrall's The Anglo-German Concertina (pp. 252-256). I dunno if this counts as Boere Musiek (two of them are flagged as Sotho/Zulu, the rest as Boer)... Volume 1 of this rather splendid book is also available...

If the music available on this or this Australian web site is anything to go by, I'm happy to play upside-down...

Me too. I'm more bemused than impressed, but I know what you mean. When I tried this, I was amazed that I managed to stagger through a few bars of anything before having it all go severely pear-shaped...

OK, I see. slightly different use of terms, I think...

Is it upside-down, or is it rotated through 180 degrees in the horizontal plane? It looks like the latter to me (Mr. Picky strikes again... 😏). Whatever, I tried it, and managed to stumble through the first 3-4 bars of one of my 'warm-up' tunes and then it all went to rat-sh*t - the left pinkie couldn't hack the air-button. I'm amazed that anyone can play it at all like that...😎

Thanks! You just brightened my day! I must remember those alternative names...😎 It's more than the OP asked for, but there's a (short) section on modal forms of Amin which can be played on a 20-button C/G on p. 11 of Mick Bramich's Absolute Beginner's Concertina. I don't know what the 'body of the kirk' thinks about this book, but I found it very helpful when I started. All the tunes in the book are in a simple tablature (which is effectively the same as used for the scales posted earlier)... The OP did ask for a web site. There are scales given in the 'Exercises' section of this on-line Anglo concertina tutor. There are several tunes given in each of the 'In Row Tunes' and 'Cross Row Tunes' sections... I progressed from the Bramich books to the Australian system early in my somewhat murky musical career. Since then, I have used no other...

1) Not at all. I should have explained a little more... 2) Precisely. There is no 'c' because it's not 'necessary' - absence of a prefix simply means 'play on the home row'. On a 3-row C/G, the rows are prefixed: 'a' (accidental), nothing (home row) and 'g' (g row). It sounds awkward, but once the idea gets ingrained, this approach transfers easily to G/D and Bb/F Anglo. It works for me, anyway. I'm sorry for the confusion caused by my assumption that you were an Anglo-er - entirely my fault...

Oops! Sorry. I didn't mean to confuse you (if that is indeed what I did). The picture was intended to reinforce what you said about the fingering for the scale of G being the same on the G-row as the fingering for the scale of C on the C-row. Apart from the 'g', the fingering is the same for each key...

Like this?

There is a series of 4 videos on Youtube about the workings of these instruments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbPw0yR19zM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88yCVla_Djg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvs4-ANFuq8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anBj1hibG0o Offhand, I can't remember if any of them deal with fixing wheezy bellows, but worth a look?

It's still linked in Don's sig as far as I can see. Maybe your machine got temporarily screwed? It is indeed very high quality...

My step-up from a 20-button was to a 30-button - the very Marcus Mikefule is referring to. It is indeed an impressive instrument. It's sitting beside me right now. (Pause while I play 'Back to the Army Again' for 30 seconds or so...😎). It is my first-choice instrument when I play for t'Morris, or with the Beech Band (when we're allowed to, of course). If the post was intended to recommend a Marcus as a good second instrument, I would heartily endorse that recommendation...

I'm just highlighting short extracts from the recent posts to keep it short: Schult said: > I'm not sure if MuseScore has a way to do batch processing. Yes, I thought that might be the case. My own approach is quite deliberately ABC-oriented, and geared to 'batch processing'. > I figure pianists manage, so it's at least possible. (wrt two staves) Good point! I hadn't thought of that! Don said: > ...if you use the concertina sound font linked to in my signature below then Musescore will give you a nice > sounding play-along... > I gave up using things like EasyABC on Windows because the instruments used for play-back are really horrible. Yes! That sound font is really nice. I wish it were possible to load sound fonts into ABC! As Don says, the MIDI sound in ABC is pretty scratchy, but if you tweak it a bit, it can be improved (I use Tango Accordion to simulate a concertina). I think I may be fortunate in having quite a good sound card in my machine, and it doesn't sound quite as 'orrible as I've heard on some machines. Schult said (in response to Don's suggestion): > That actually gets me thinking that ABC letters should be one of the options to show on the buttons. The 'batch-oriented' program wot I wrote was initially written to add ABT tabs to existing ABC files (using the different button numbering associated with the ABT system). It does that job reasonably successfully, and that's what I mostly use it for. I have however added various options as I gained more confidence. One which I added about a fortnight ago was to display the ABC code for a note below the note, and I'm quite pleased with it. The point being not that I did it, but that I did it and thus confirmed that it is a viable option. If a berk like me can do it in ABC, I'm sure you'll manage to do it in MuseScore - good hunting! Time for a large whisky!

Ooh! Doesn't it start to get horribly complicated with two staffs - it's complicated enough already. I'm not sure I can visualise what that would look like. Question I meant to ask earlier. Can schult's MuseScore approach handle tunes in 'batches' or is it a 'one-at-a-time' approach? I'm not even sure this is a sensible question in MuseScore context...

Thanks! Looks as if my 'hand-crafting', and your plug-in are both hovering at approximately the same height above this problem. I'll have a look at the video again later. As I implied in what I said earlier, it's not a problem for me as I don't use GC's tablature and don't use MuseScore, but it is interesting. It would be nice if it could be sorted. The lack of horizontal alignment is what I would expect to see if I used text annotations rather than accompaniment chords in the ABC As far as the horizontal bars above the notes are concerned, I tried using a macron at first, but that only works for a small sub-set of letters, and not for numbers at all. I also thought about adding a separate 's:' line with only underscores in it, to create the continuous horizontal line, but LMF defeated me... I wonder what lilypond would make of the problem (no, I'm not even thinking about trying that one myself...).

Sounds as if you may be hitting the same sort of problem as I did with ABC? I'm not a MuseScore user. Any chance you could post a PDF of one of the tunes you have treated in this way for the purposes of comparison? Thanks. Edit, a few minutes later: I've now briefly re-visited the rest of this thread, and it looks very much as if other folks have had similar problems with the solid and dashed lines, and also with the actual placement of some of the lines of button numbers.. ------------------------------------- I'm also not a user of GC's tablature. I use a 'terser' system which has allowed me to create a program which does the tabbing for me while I relax with a cup of tea and a biscuit. This is what I set out to do in the first place, so I'm happy..😎

Purely by chance, last week I re-visited this problem and tried again to add Coover tabs to an ABC file. I got a little further than I did before, but wasn't able to reproduce the tablature exactly. It's not a big deal for me as I don't use Mr. Coover's system in the first place, and am really only interested in adding tabs to existing files using a computer program, but it was an 'interesting' exercise. I used 'Amazing Grace', the first tune in Civil War Concertina as a test-bed. I've attached the ABC and the resultant score (I used EasyABC 1.3.7.7). If you compare the score with the one in the book, you will see that it is close(-ish) - but not close enough. The solid lines above the staff and the dashed lines below the staff are both missing - and I can't see a consistent, reproducible way to add them... So, it looks like it's MuseScore (or lilypond?) to do this job... --------------------------------------------- Here, for my fellow geeks is what I did: The button numbers which go above the score in a Coover-tabbed tune have to be inserted in the ABC file using s: lines ('symbol' lines); The button numbers which go below have to be inserted using w: lines ('lyric' lines). Because the accompaniment chords are placed at the 'top' of the tabbed score, they also have to be transferred to an s: line. Button numbers in the s: lines have to be inserted as 'symbols' which basically means using faux-accompaniment chords or text annotations. If you use text annotations, they are not lined up horizontally. Below the staff, the button numbers can go in as 'words'. The effect is that above the score, button numbers are encoded in quotes, below the score, they are not. Both w: and s: lines are parsed by ABC as if they were w: lines, so bar-lines, rests and grace notes can be ignored. If a note is present in the score, but not explicitly assigned a button number, an empty string (ie: a space) must be explicitly used for that note - a 'null' value will not do. At this point, I gave up. The solid 'over-lines' above the staff, and the dashed lines below the staff defeated me. I really don't think it's feasible within ABC. Once I 'got my eye in', it took 10-15 minutes to encode each line of music - far too slow for practical purposes. At this point, I gave up and pulled a beer out of the 'fridge... ag.abc Amazing Grace.pdf

You don't say what type of concertina you have - Anglo or English, or w.h.y. If it's an Anglo, I suspect that folks with more knowledge/experience than myself will be along to answer your question 'real soon now', but I wonder if what you are talking about isn't (more or less) what is being discussed in this thread. Whatever, it might at least 'get you started'... There's some good advice in there, quite a lot of it coming from the general directions of Lincolnshire and Worcestershire...