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#37 ceemonster

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:57 PM

[Aogan explained that he did not like much to play these kind of tunes, because the fingerings requires lot of bellows change, and that the phrases can't be played smoothly enough. He concluded "it's a nice tune, but not a nice concertina tune". One of the participants, who played EC, corrected : " not a nice anglo concertina tune!" He indeed played the tune in a very nice way.] yes, this is exactement the annoyance i was expressing and continue to wax and wane with. and adventures with cba and an el cheapo EC do indeed have me eyeing an expansion to a quality unisonoric concertina....

having said that, not being locked into "default notes," and putting all the AC's notes at your disposal, puts the annoyance wall much farther off than it is if one is operating from the more limited default palette.....i like POTK, jug of punch, broken pledge, and stuff like that much better on ac than on b/c accordion, because you if you blow off the "default paradigm" and use all your bidirectional note choices you have much more fluid phrasing pathways than with only two bidirectional "magic notes" on b/c box....what would really make POTK fly on AC is to lose the ring/pinkie a/g button, and sub in a reverse e/f there. ac already has nice reverse a/g on the top row (which i use constantly--never need the bottom-row one, actually) that the "default lockstep" doesn't teach people to exploit. if you get adept at using them, then the ring/pinkie one is superflous, and could be jettisoned to make room for a handy-dandy e/f....

Edited by ceemonster, 21 April 2012 - 10:03 PM.


#38 david fabre

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:39 AM

Here is a concertina recording of POTK by M. Eskin using more or less "default fingerings"
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=XgLUEuY7qn0
Bertram, I'm sure you can do without the written music, but if you need I will send you directly (I was not able to append it here)

I think the difficulty is the repeated motion between E and F, which are on opposite directions on the 30b.
I do have a 40b, so more options for fluidity, but have not yet found the right path for this one.

#39 david fabre

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:39 AM

...

Edited by david fabre, 22 April 2012 - 07:40 AM.


#40 david fabre

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 07:39 AM

(oops, triplicated post)

Edited by david fabre, 22 April 2012 - 07:40 AM.


#41 BertramLevy

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:24 AM

Here is a concertina recording of POTK by M. Eskin using more or less "default fingerings"
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=XgLUEuY7qn0
Bertram, I'm sure you can do without the written music, but if you need I will send you directly (I was not able to append it here)

I think the difficulty is the repeated motion between E and F, which are on opposite directions on the 30b.
I do have a 40b, so more options for fluidity, but have not yet found the right path for this one.



Hi David I prefer the written music so I can get it right for you. Please send it to me and I will finger it for you

Bertram

#42 Azalin

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:44 AM

And I can't aspire to the Anglo playing ike the young woman here!

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=uYO9jftkFBk


Wow, nice one. She must not have heard that the anglo is so much limited in the low range, no one ever told her! ;-) That's the second amazing concertina player referenced in this thread which I've never heard of, is there hundreds of them? :blink:

By the way it seems she is using the low A on the G row both times at the beginning of the tune. By studying the video for a while we'll probably be able to find out what's her exact fingering in the A part. Great stuff.

#43 ceemonster

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 09:21 PM

i'm pretty sure i watched her playing in an impromptu festival sesh with pat mullins and john wynne [i think] for quite some time in feakle a few years ago.....lovely player....:)

Edited by ceemonster, 22 April 2012 - 09:22 PM.


#44 David Levine

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:20 AM

My version of LoL is a fiddle version, probably from Sligo. I like Sadhbh Peate's playing on Youtube a lot, beginning at 1:39 at http://www.youtube.c...h?v=uYO9jftkFBk . She plays it so fluently that it seems wrong to say that it isn't a tune that is concertina-friendly. She is a marvelous player and a straight-forward, lovely person. Gerdy Commane's playing has a lot of music in it but still, it's a bit rough to my ears. Very worth hearing though.

I am learning to play the tune with a left-hand shift so that the first note, the E, is played with my index finger. I don't use the normal default position. I go back and forth between the C row and G row with my first three fingers, using my index finger for the push low A. The mid-range B is a default RH pull on the G row. This is a natural way of playing the lower notes in the G scale. It is awkward at first but isn't that true of most new things on this awkward instrument.

I will post when I feel more comfortable with the new fingering, but after only a week I can play the tune better than on the posted version. It isn't relearning an old thing so much as learning something altogether new. My sincere thanks to Bertram Levy and to Geoff Wright for pointing me in the right direction and for spelling things out. I also played with the great Sharon O'Leary at Tom Carey's memorial last weekend in Cree, and she confirmed that most accomplished players will shift to avoid what Bertram refers to as "The slavery of the little finger." It is a revelation.

#45 michael sam wild

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:11 AM

Thanks for the info David, I adopted the index on push E from the outset. I don't have a push low A (A,) but have decided to try a triplet of pull A,B,A, rather than three A, pulls.

I found the tune in Breathnach's book vol 1. He says it is Scottish , Ril as Albain and also called Lads of Leith. he got it froma whistle player. I've also been recommended Andy McGann's 's version and also Dezi Donnelly's. It's becoming a bit of a voyage of discovery so this thread is really interesting. I also wonder whether a B,B B, pull triplet might work with an octave jump in the middle or a B,D B, pull.

The main challenge however is to get it to flow at a decent speed. so using the A/G on the accidental row is helpful.

Edited by michael sam wild, 23 April 2012 - 02:39 PM.


#46 Azalin

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:31 AM

I also played with the great Sharon O'Leary at Tom Carey's memorial last weekend in Cree, and she confirmed that most accomplished players will shift to avoid what Bertram refers to as "The slavery of the little finger." It is a revelation.


But Sadhbh does not switch in that tune, and she plays it flawlessly. I did not feel the need to switch in that tune either, and I'm happy with the result. But for a tune like Farewell to Ireland, where there's more of a mix of low A, B and C, I think switching is required if you don't want your fingers to do too much work.

#47 michael sam wild

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 08:55 AM

I got this via The Session ( it's from a 1962 recording) which indicates 'the hand of Tommy Potts' If Peter Laban is out there can you tell me a bit more Peter?

http://www.box.com/s...5cb5dc1148fc282


I also wonder whether a triplet on the B, or A, is 'acceptable' by tapping the Right hand plate or even giving a shake.

I have also tried using two adjacent fingfers but it's very tricky and I wouldn't risk it in public at the moment.

Edited by michael sam wild, 25 April 2012 - 09:00 AM.


#48 BertramLevy

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 10:21 AM

Here is a concertina recording of POTK by M. Eskin using more or less "default fingerings"
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=XgLUEuY7qn0
Bertram, I'm sure you can do without the written music, but if you need I will send you directly (I was not able to append it here)

I think the difficulty is the repeated motion between E and F, which are on opposite directions on the 30b.
I do have a 40b, so more options for fluidity, but have not yet found the right path for this one.


In response to David Fabre's request here is a suggested fingering for the Porthole of the Kelp. Although the E and F are in opposite direction and must always require a change in direction, the piece can be smoothed out by the treatment of the notes on either side of the E and F. This is the pairing principle as discussed in my book For example in the first measure G and F are in the open followed by D and E in the closing direction. In the next measure the F and E must change but the following F is paired with the G so that the phrase flows well.

I have included triplets where appropriate and the fingers required. Notice that the triplet D's in measure 7 are in the opposite direction to the D G that follows Other ornamentations can be included by those that are regular devotees to the irish tunes however I did set up the C in measure 8 and 9 in closing direction on the right hand since that is more suited to ornamentation. The ornamentation in the first note of measure 14 is only a suggestion. Finally the use of the fifth (little ) finger does not need to be avoided in the proper context such as the move 5 3 where the hand works as a fulcrum. In places where 5 and 4 are played in juxtaposition such as measure 8 and 9 one should view it as another example of the pairing principle. Here E D Followed by D E are practice as pairs: first 2 5 then 4 2.

Incidentally The roman numerals of the row indicate which G or A should be used.

Hope this helps

Bertram

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#49 david fabre

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 03:08 PM

Bertram, thanks a lot for the fingering ! I see this will also be a good exercice for two-finger triplets ...I had already encountered such triplets before but only on the right hand. I'm sure this deserves to be practised also on the left.



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