40 Button Anglos

[semaj1950]

Hi gang,

 

I'm a new member, and I have been practicing on a Hohner I got 14 years ago, or so when they were still made in Germany. I'm thinking about upgrading to a 30 button Italian cheapo--budgetary restraints, you know--but I was wondering if anyone regularly plays a 40 button anglo.

 

Is there any point? Do the added notes help in any way or do they just make the fingering more clunky?

 

I'd appreciate any input in this area.

 

Thanks,

 

Jim

[JimLucas]

I personally find the extra buttons useful, both for melody playing and for more complex harmony and chordal styles. In playing Irish tunes I like having more discretion as to where in the tune I reverse the bellows. If you're trying to copy exactly a player who uses a 30-button, then the extras won't be of much use. If you try to minimize cross-row playing, then you'll be avoiding the extra buttons, because they're out of the in-line pattern. But if you're experimental and creative, I think you'll like having them.

 

Caveats: 1) Every many-button (38, 40, 45) anglo I've tried has some idiosyncratic note placements different from all the rest; some I like, and some I don't. 2) I find a couple of "standard" the note placements -- the pull E button and the drone or pull C in the left hand -- generally awkward to use. That might be just me, though.

 

The funny thing, though, is that right now I'm deliberately working on the 30-button, specifically to learn to play within its "limitations". With more buttons I can avoid some bellows reversals (e.g., a quick D-E-F# run in the left hand can be done without reversing), add others so that I don't run out of air, and play a few more chords.

[Howard Mitchell]

Jim,

 

Yes, I play a 40-key anglo and a 36 key one which has many of the useful features that a 40-key has.

 

In order of usefulness for me:

 

G and A below C on the right hand side extending the right hand range.

D above top C on the right hand on the pull in keeping with lower Ds and D chord.

Bb and F un the push on the left hand to facilitate C7 and G7 chords.

 

The 36 key instrument is in G/D so these facilities move to their relative notes.

 

regards

 

Howard Mitchell

[JimLucas]

Yes, I play a 40-key anglo and a 36 key one which has many of the useful features that a 40-key has.

 

In order of usefulness for me:

 

G and A below C on the right hand side extending the right hand range.

D above top C on the right hand on the pull in keeping with lower Ds and D chord.

Bb and F un the push on the left hand to facilitate C7 and G7 chords.

 

The 36 key instrument is in G/D so these facilities move to their relative notes.

 

regards

 

Howard Mitchell

Just to reemphasize my remark that the extra notes you get often do *not* follow a *standard* pattern, of three 38-button Jeffries and a 45-button:

 

Only the 45 has the right-hand notes Howard mentions, and not in the location he records. In fact, they're on separate buttons.

One of the 38's doesn't have the pull high-D, and one has it in a completely different place.

One of the 38's doesn't have the push Bb, two don't have the push F, and the remaining 38 and the 45 have the push F on the left-hand thumb button, not at the end of the G row, where it's placed in diagrams I have from both Wheatstone and Jones. On the other hand, three of them have a push F# in that location, and the same three all have a push F# in the right hand, all in the same location. (The fourth doesn't have that note.)

[Chris Ghent]

I find it interesting the Irish players I have on CD and in tutor seem all to use 30/31 key instruments. Is this a cultural thing, a reflection of the extra weight in the larger instruments, or maybe the result of the poorer tone in some of the additional notes, due to them having to be placed in the middle of the reedpan..?

 

regs

 

Chris

[David Barnert]

...or maybe the result of the poorer tone in some of the additional notes, due to them having to be placed in the middle of the reedpan..?

Why would a 40 button require reeds placed in the middle of the reedpan? My 46 button Hayden has all the reeds at the periphery, as do all the 48-button EC's I've ever seen the insides of.

[Chris Ghent]

Many of the people I was referring to play Jeffries anglos, and my understanding is larger Jeffries are extensions of their 30 key design; which is to say they do not have radial pans. They start with a standard pan and add more slots, without shifting any closer to establish more room. This means the extra notes first fill out the remaining spaces around the outside, (about three?) and then have to use spaces further in, sometimes screwed into place. In my meagre experience these internally placed notes have different tonal qualities. Anyone else..?

 

regs

 

Chris

[Paul Groff]

Chris

 

I agree with you. There is a greater difference in tone (timbre) between reeds in chambers at the periphery vs. in the center of the reedpan in some Jeffries than others, but where there are center-mounted reeds, the unevenness in tone is usually detectable. My subjective impression is that this is mostly a difference in the higher harmonics that contribute to the tone, and that (like the tonal differences among notes on the same side of a 31-key, due to pad position relative to fretwork) the unevenness is most apparent to the player or to a very close listener in a quiet room. Get a few feet away from the instrument, play with background noise or other instruments, and the audience (say 10 feet away or more) will be unlikely to pick up the unevenness in tone. We discussed the pad location/fretwork issue before (and the issue of "fretwork openness"), but this is another interesting feature that sensitive players notice especially when practicing. In these days when some use close miking techniques (see related topic) it also becomes a problem in public performance; however, there some EQ (especially rolling back the higher octaves) can do a lot to ameliorate the tonal imbalance.

 

Even with radial reedpans you often get chambers in the center of the pan in anglos with 36 or more keys. My favorite 36 key ebonised Linota does not have them (and its tone is miraculously even) but 36 key and 40 key Lachenals currently or recently through the shop did have the chambers in the center.

 

 

Jim (semaj1950) and all,

 

On the issue of 30 vs 40 keys I have heard brilliant players of all types of music play so well on each of these that I am convinced (for students in the first few years) it shouldn't be a worry, PERIOD. There are much more important issues (like quality, condition, and tone) to worry about; if you maximize these within your budget you will have the best concertina to help you learn and practice. An exception might be if your teacher (and I really hope you find one!) prefers a certain system. Then you will have an easier time if your instrument is set up like hers or his. But a motivated student can get around the minor difficulty of "translation" between teacher's and student's button layout - and learn a very useful skill and attitude by doing so.

 

A general thought, stimulated by meeting a very interesting new concertinist recently: Some kinds of information are very easy to discuss, compare, dispute in a forum such as this, but are not really the crucial ingredient in a quality instrument, in quality musicianship, in learning music, or in teaching music. The crucial ingredient is how you do it, much more than what you do. That's why Kitty Hayes or Mrs. Crotty could record hours of heartbreakingly beautiful music without straying out of the confines of the C and G rows of an anglo. The analytical part of our mind can rush impatiently beyond the keyboard of the 20 key anglo and we can argue online for weeks about where that duplicate F# should be, but all this is a distraction for a beginner trying to learn how first to cast a musical spell, making a sound that others will enjoy. It only takes a minute to analyze the "notes" of a simple tune, but a lifetime to reap all its rewards in learning, practicing, and sharing it.

 

Just from the way I write you can tell I'm guilty of this analytical mindset. It does help when you spend your time trying to make instruments work and sound better! But for learning and enjoying music, the contributors here who have written about the "warm fuzzies" are helping to remind us of something important.

 

Paul

Edited October 31, 2003 by Paul Groff