C.jeffries On Ebay

[Paul Read]

After the 20-button Lachenal that went for US$1010, I'll believe anything (makes the 'Jeffries' look like a bargain!)

[ceemonster]

well, and even if it's not a "fake" jeffries, as in, deliberate fraud, and also, even aside from issues as to whether the reeds in a "c. jeffries" are original jeffries reeds or original crabb reeds, is this issue----what if most of the reeds are NOT original, period, due to eight million repairs and replacements over the decades? a lot of so-called "jeffries" boxes out there have on the inside, a hodge-podge of lachenal or lachenal-quality reeds, due not to fraud by the seller, but successive repairs/replacements over a century of box lifespan. not to rule out the possibility that such reeds can sound good, but we're talking jeffries prices here, and for those prices, seems to me the reeds need to be certified or vetted! i simply don't get it with these sales!

Edited May 25, 2005 by ceemonster

[Greg Jowaisas]

I share all the previously expressed concerns. If Stephen Chambers has reservations, then I am listening.

 

As one who went looking for a Jeffries with too little experience I can identify with those who get caught up in the excitement. (My experience had a relatively happy ending although with more restoration than i had planned.)

 

But the winning bidder in this auction has successfully bid on a number of Jeffries the past two years. If memory serves the others were in apparent better condition. But we don't know if an on site inspection was made or if the buyer had additional information.

 

I know there have been a number of times when i have thought to myself, "Now there is an interesting box! I wonder if I should persue this?" Only to find the winner (often with the last name of Wayne or Algar) also saw something intriguing but had the knowledge, experience and conviction to act. (and perhaps some money too!)

 

Regards,

 

Greg J

[Dave Prebble]

Hi Des,

 

Sorry not to have replied earlier.

 

The main point I wished to get across in my earlier post is that, whatever the make of the instrument, caution must be exercised in buying 'blind' on ebay.

 

The need for such caution is, to my mind increased considerably if the instrument has "unusual" features for the make in question or to a practised eye simply just does not 'look right' and of course concerns will increase in direct proportion to the bidding price.

 

The fact that I have handled a considerable number of Jeffries and Crabb (Or if you prefer Crabb/Jeffries ) Instruments over the last 30 years and not come across one marked only on the left hand side would, from my point of view count as unusual and warrant further inspection. I certainly did not mean this to read as 'if it is only stamped on the LHS then it must be a fake' .

 

It could be that it was the makers original intention to stamp it on the left, who knows? I can certainly visualise the situation that, in Old Charlie's workshop on a friday aftenoon after a quick pint (or perhaps tired and working into the early hours), that the wrong end might be stamped in error. It certainly makes it no less a Jeffries (or is that Crabb?) and would certainly not have warranted discarding the endplate.

If the error was noticed when the punch was still in his hand, then the other endplate, would probably have been stamped too without a second thought.

 

There clearly are folks out there with sufficient financial clout to take risks with such instruments and thus maintain such prices on ebay. It seems that the Buyer lives in the UK, and were in his shoes, I would have most certainly made a trip to view before committing to bids of that order of magnitude.

 

The point has also rightly been made that, irrespective of make and whether or not the instrument is genuine, some of these concertinas have seen better days. Some are just so worn out / filed to bits and otherwise abused that a half decent mahogany ended Lachenal would yield better results for a fraction of the price.

 

As for Owners of Crabbs / Jeffries of this era being frightened by such comments, I would hope not.

There is far too much made of the 'Jeffries' name stamped on an instrument and arguments about who actually made them, while certainly interesting, are of secondary concern to me when buying an instrument. The crux of the matter and the 'decider' for me is how an instrument plays and sounds.

 

Perhaps this 'name' phenomenon was illustrated recently when an instrument of apparently similar vintage and pedigree but described as a 'Crabb' (though I seem to recall - unstamped) was sold for a mere £2050 despite appearing to be in far better condition.

Were it to prove the case that they both played equally well, is the 'Jeffries' name really so precious as to warrant an extra £1700 or so ?

 

caveat emptor ..... and happy bidding

 

Hope to see Steve and yourself at Kilrush in the Summer

 

Regards

 

Dave

Edited May 25, 2005 by Dave Prebble

[geoffwright]

I was discussing my the name stamp on my joint effort Jeffries with Colin Dipper at the Swaledale Weekend.(Colin carried out some wonderful restoration on my concertina from it being found in an attic in pieces)

He was happy with the end plates probably being from Crabbs but was intrigued by the stamp. He thought the lack of serifs on the stamp made it different to the expected Jeffries stamp, but there was no evidence of Shakespeare or whoever having been filed off and another stamp superimposed (evidently a common scam).

I guess you evidently need to put the name stamp under a microscope to establish validity?

[des tracey]

Hi Des,

 

Sorry not to have replied earlier.

 

The main point I wished to get across in my earlier post is that, whatever the make of the instrument, caution must be exercised in buying 'blind' on ebay.

 

The need for such caution is, to my mind increased considerably if the instrument has "unusual" features for the make in question or to a practised eye simply just does not 'look right' and of course concerns will increase in direct proportion to the bidding price.

 

The fact that I have handled a considerable number of Jeffries and Crabb (Or if you prefer Crabb/Jeffries ) Instruments over the last 30 years and not come across one marked only on the left hand side would, from my point of view count as unusual and warrant further inspection. I certainly did not mean this to read as 'if it is only stamped on the LHS then it must be a fake' .

 

It could be that it was the makers original intention to stamp it on the left, who knows? I can certainly visualise the situation that, in Old Charlie's workshop on a friday aftenoon after a quick pint (or perhaps tired and working into the early hours), that the wrong end might be stamped in error. It certainly makes it no less a Jeffries (or is that  Crabb?) and would certainly not have warranted discarding the endplate.

If the error was noticed when the punch was still in his hand, then the other endplate, would probably have been stamped too without a second thought.

 

There clearly are folks out there with sufficient financial clout to take risks with such instruments and thus maintain such prices on ebay. It seems that the Buyer lives in the UK, and were in his shoes, I would have most certainly made a trip to view before committing to bids of that order of magnitude.

 

The point has also rightly been made that, irrespective of make and whether or not the instrument is genuine, some of these concertinas have seen better days. Some are just so worn out / filed to bits and otherwise abused that a half decent mahogany ended Lachenal would yield better results for a fraction of the price.

 

As for Owners of Crabbs / Jeffries of this era being frightened by such comments, I would hope not.

There is far too much made of the 'Jeffries' name stamped on an instrument and arguments about who actually made them, while certainly interesting, are of secondary concern to me when buying an instrument. The crux of the matter and the 'decider' for me is how an instrument plays and sounds.

 

Perhaps this 'name' phenomenon was illustrated recently when an instrument of apparently similar vintage and pedigree but described as a 'Crabb' (though I seem to recall - unstamped) was sold for a mere £2050 despite appearing to be in far better condition.

Were it to prove the case that they both played equally well, is the 'Jeffries' name really so precious as to warrant an extra £1700 or so ?

 

caveat emptor .....  and happy bidding 

 

Hope to see Steve and yourself at Kilrush in the Summer

 

Regards

 

Dave

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dave,

 

It seems that much of the discussion centred around whether the makers mark was normally found on both ends. In your last posting you clarify that the cause of concern for you initially was that it was only marked on the left. My contribution

was that I have seen a number of boxes with markings on both ends.

Anyway, I think that at least I am a bit clearer now about the issues which give rise to uncertainty as to origin.

I would agree with Stephen when he questions the rake of the buttons on the ebay instrument. I have been studying both my own and photos of other Jeffries and I think that they are a little off, as is the stamping(imho) in relation to the buttons.

 

I also took note of the Crabb that sold on ebay and was sorry that I wasn't in a position to see and play it and perhaps bid on it. It sure looked nice.

 

I might continue this discussion with Stephen and yourself the next time I'm in

Kilrush. I hope that you are back to full health and enjoying life and perhaps I'll see you at Eigse Mrs Crotty.

 

Des

[Pete Dickey]

And now it has reappeared as a scam here on ebay

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...mMakeTrack=true

 

Some folks are just too stupid to give up

[Pete Dickey]

Reported to Ebay and gone next time I looked at 9.45pm. Ebay seem to be getting their act together.

[Stephen Chambers]

... there was no evidence of Shakespeare or whoever having been filed off and another stamp superimposed (evidently a common scam).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Geoff,

 

Many instruments of this style never had any makers mark stamped into them, especially ones by John Crabb, or by Tom Shakespeare, so there was no need to file anything off (which would leave an obvious indentation in the thin metal).