Jeffries 3 Row Layout

[David Hornett]

Hi,

 

Can anyone direct me to a usual / common / standard 3 row Jeffries c/g layout. I have a C Jeffries (1890), a Suttner Jeffries layout chart, a chart I downloaded from here and a chart I downloaded from ebay when someone was trying to sell a Jeffries: they are all different!

 

With the 38 button concertinas I made I followed the 38 button layout, downloaded from Suttner's site. A Jeffries player, when playing it, told me the accidentals were wrong (he was an ear player and could only say, "They are wrong." referring to two right hand accidentals. So, is there anyone out there who can help? I am currently putting the reeds in my new 32 button (not including the air button, middle row left and right hand side has 6 buttons each) Tassie tiger, hopefully tuned to the Jeffrie's system ... whatever that may be, so help would be greatly appreciated.

 

OR If someone has a better suggested tuning I am all ears.

 

 

David

[Azalin]

Was he talking about the RH top row? Because from what I can see for Jeffries C/G 30 buttons, Suttner has the same layout as Carroll (beside Carroll's extra C# instead of Eb on the first button), and the same layout as my Dipper concertina... I'm really curious about these "wrong" notes...

Edited January 21, 2016 by Azalin

[David Hornett]

First and second button RH top row. Since my question, above, Chris Ghent has contacted me and indicated Suttner's Jeffries layout is more than acceptable, although Chris has a preference for C# push and pull on the 1st button (the same as Carroll?) -- in hindsight I suspect this may have been what the ear player was referring to. I am still curious about what the 'standard' 1890's Jeffries layout was for all accidentals.

 

Thank you for your response

 

David.

[Alex West]

David

 

I've only had one 30 key C/G C Jeffries in my hands as a reference - which I think it was probably a late 1890's early 1900's version - and that was identical to Juergen Suttner's layout. I've had other 30 key Jeffries in other keys (both C Jeffries and Jeffries Bros); I haven't time to transpose them tonight but I'm pretty sure that they were the equivalent of Juergen's layout

 

Alex West

[JimLucas]

First and second button RH top row. Since my question, above, Chris Ghent has contacted me and indicated Suttner's Jeffries layout is more than acceptable, although Chris has a preference for C# push and pull on the 1st button (the same as Carroll?) -- in hindsight I suspect this may have been what the ear player was referring to. I am still curious about what the 'standard' 1890's Jeffries layout was for all accidentals.

 

My understanding is that the Jeffries standard was c#/d# (push/pull) on the first RH button and d#/c# on the second button. Having c#/c# on the first button seems to be a relatively recent innovation. (Someone told me Noel Hill prefers this, but I've never tried to verify that.) What people do with the second button seems to vary. The simplest on a vintage Jeffries, since it only involves swapping reeds, is to have that as d#/d#. (Or if it's not an equal-tempered instrument, one of those could be e-flat.) Others keep both the c# and d#, thus ending up with three c#'s. In that case, one might want to flip them -- to c#/d#, -- so that the direction of the d# matches that in the LH octave.

 

FWIW, when I had the Button Box make me an anglo, I asked for c#/c# on the first button and f#/d# on the second. My reasoning was that

• I don't really need a third c#, with two in the same direction and even right next to each other.
• I rarely use d#, so having that in both directions isn't a big benefit.
• The pull d# not only matches the lower octave, but is also useful in producing various full chords: B, B7, Eb (with the pull g)....
• Meanwhile, I find the push f# opens up many new possibilities, and I wish I also had one in the lower octave.

[David Hornett]

Thank you Alex and Jim, I am beginning to get the feeling Suttner and Chris are right as the layout of my 1890's instrument is the same as Suttner's. You've been a great help. I suppose over the years instruments have been so adapted to individual preferences that its not unreasonable to come across 4 different layouts for the same instrument and maker.

 

Thank you again

 

David.

[Stephen Chambers]

David, having tuned Jeffries concertinas for 40 years I'm only too aware that he didn't make all of them with the exact same fingering, and that many more have got altered over the years to suit the needs/ideas of different players. Also, many of today's players have their own variations on what may be considered "standard" layout, depending on how they use the instrument. But having said that, I'd only question one button in the Suttner Jeffries layout, which is the highest button of the G row - where the draw F# is normally F, and the press Eb is normally F#.

 

Nobody seems to have addressed your question of the two extra buttons on the C row yet though, but you need to clarify if the extra button on the right hand side is a low or a high one (the latter being more common generally, but less useful).

 

Otherwise, some people seem to be going for a D drone instead of the more traditional C one these days, or C draw/F press (like a 38-key Jeffries) for chording.

[David Hornett]

Thank you Stephen,

 

As I make these instruments as presents to my family, I am not too perturbed, except I wanted to maintain some playability if a real player got his/her hands on one and expected to play it like a Jeffries..

 

You mention the Suttner difference, in this instance, I, being an along the row player, have changed the last button on the G row to F#6 draw and A6 push.

 

The instrument is 32 buttons, so the C row's last button is D6 draw and F6 push.

 

The extra button on the C row bass is B2 Draw and D3 push. These changes give an extended range for along the row players. All else is the same as the Suttner so should be able to be played in the across the row Irish fashion.

 

Thank you so much for your response.

 

David

[Stephen Chambers]

The instrument is 32 buttons, so the C row's last button is D6 draw and F6 push.

 

So you've added the extra button at the top of the range, where it would usually be D/C on a Wheatstone or Lachenal, or E/F on a Jeffries. But if you put the button at the other end of the row you could put a very useful F# on the press, whilst the draw note varies a lot.

 

 

The extra button on the C row bass is B2 Draw and D3 push.

 

Often C#/F# or G#/F#.

[David Hornett]

Yep, prior to this adventure I made 4 X 38 button concertinas modelled on one of the Jeffries layouts, (two C/Gs, 1 GD and a D/A) and they have a very nice selection of extra notes, but I never use them. For a pedestrian player such as myself the extending of the bass down, and the treble up, so as to avoid dropping to the G row, makes life easy. And I think I am just a little too lazy to bother about learning the Irish cross rowing -- when things get desperate (someone plays in A maybe) I usually pick up a whistle or harmonica, or in very desperate situations, providing there is a clear path of escape, the BGriff. But thank you for the suggestion: maybe for the next one.

 

All the best,

 

David

[Stephen Chambers]

For a pedestrian player such as myself the extending of the bass down, and the treble up, so as to avoid dropping to the G row, makes life easy.

 

You have me confused now David - are you saying the extra button (B/D) on the left side is DOWN, below the G/C? I was assuming it was in the normal place, where it otherwise always is, ABOVE the A/G...

 

... when things get desperate (someone plays in A maybe) I usually pick up a whistle or harmonica ...

 

Have you thought about maybe making yourself a G/D/A (or whatever keys would suit you best) then? They wouldn't be common in Anglos, but neither are they unheard of, whilst the old German 3-row system was to have the third row in a third key (Bb on a C/G box) anyway...

Edited January 23, 2016 by Stephen Chambers

[David Hornett]

Left: Top: F3/E3, Bb3/A3, Eb4/C#4/G4/A4, Bb4/G#4

Middle: B2/D3, G3/C3, B3/G3, D4/C4, F4/E4, A4/G4

[David Hornett]

 

For a pedestrian player such as myself the extending of the bass down, and the treble up, so as to avoid dropping to the G row, makes life easy.

 

You have me confused now David - are you saying the extra button (B/D) on the left side is DOWN, below the G/C? I was assuming it was in the normal place, where it otherwise always is, ABOVE the A/G...

 

... when things get desperate (someone plays in A maybe) I usually pick up a whistle or harmonica ...

 

Have you thought about maybe making yourself a G/D/A (or whatever keys would suit you best) then? They wouldn't be common in Anglos, but neither are they unheard of, whilst the old German 3-row system was to have the third row in a third key (Bb on a C/G box) anyway...

 

Ah, yes, I have done this. A few years ago I purchased from eBay a rather sad Jeffries duet. (It had been soaked in water and required a total rebuild as you can possibly imagine, absolutely stuffed -- it fell further apart in the post and I received a box of leather, wood and metal that looked as though it had fallen from the moon; but the reeds cleaned up very well.)

 

Anyway, when it arrived it turned out to be a duet converted from a 38 button Jeffries with an extra row added on both sides, the insides were totally reworked to accommodate the different duet layout and the extra notes -- inner reed board and action board holes stopped with wooden plugs, no air button and other holes drilled, (the fret work was neatly spread so it looked for the world like a duet, it was only when one got up close that the plates soldiered on the inside of the grill and providing guides for the buttons could be seen. Well, I certainly don't play duet, and definitely not in the old tuning, so it was reconverted to its original G/D, the reeds solder tipped to bring it from A453 to A442 (a heat sink was used) You may remember I sought some advice as to its original tuning on this forum. With the addition of a C row: it sounds great, BUT the C row is in the bass octive (if compared to a normal concertina) But never-the-less, a great instrument, with a simply fantastic tone, and I mean fantastic!! mellow, sweet and loud, and very importantly, most of the time at sessions I can feel like a hero playing straight down the row.

 

And the really good thing is, if a purist ever wanted to purchase it, I could pull out the extra buttons, cover a few holes in the sound board and not a soul would ever know; and I would have 16 great jeffries reeds ... But I in reality suspect the kids will sell it after I depart.

 

David

 

David