Is this the right key chart?

[drbones]

I've bought a 30 button Wheatstone anglo and it should be here in a couple of days. Is this the correct chart for it? I found one for a 31 button Suttner Linota and it has some differences.

This Linota chart was given on this forum as the chart for a 20 button when using the 2 bottom rows and went uncontested.

Are there differences between a standard Wheatstone 20 or 30 button anglo and a Linota on the C and G rows?

Or maybe I should be asking if there are differences in a standard 20 and 30 button Wheatstone on those rows.

 

Disclaimer: Sorry about the push/pull being reversed, (not my fault), but the differences are obvious.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

[JimLucas]

Disclaimer: Sorry about the push/pull being reversed, (not my fault), but the differences are obvious.

I see two differences:

• A pull A on the leftmost button vs. a pull D. The A is a common variant, peferred by many.
  
• The lower chart has a C drone thumb button in the left hand. This is also a common option.
  

Edited to remove an irrelevancy.

Edited July 13, 2009 by JimLucas

[drbones]

I must have looked at these things 10 times or more and I swear there were more.

So what is the standard layout? Is the top chart correct for the Wheatstone on all the buttons?

[JimLucas]

I must have looked at these things 10 times or more and I swear there were more.

Well, there's also the Eb's vs. the D#'s on the third row, but I think you know those are just two different names for the same note. Aside from that, the push-pull inversion between the two diagrams can make it difficult to keep track.

 

So what is the standard layout? Is the top chart correct for the Wheatstone on all the buttons?

As far as I know. But what I know I've gotten just from such charts and discussions here on concertina.net. I've never owned a 30-button Wheatstone, Linota or otherwise.

 

But what's the point of your asking?

Your instrument is on the way, and the keyboard arrangement will be whatever it is. Are you going to complain if it's not "standard"? Just pick it up and play whatever notes you find on it, and enjoy!

[drbones]

I guess I was getting a little anxious. I'll try to relax now. Thanks!

[Steve_freereeder]

So what is the standard layout? Is the top chart correct for the Wheatstone on all the buttons?

Your top chart is exactly the layout of my 30-key Wheatstone, and I think can be safely thought of as the 'standard' Wheatstone layout.

Hope you enjoy your concertina when it comes.

[drbones]

Well, there's also the Eb's vs. the D#'s on the third row, but I think you know those are just two different names for the same note.

AHA! I knew you'd be wrong about something! Actually I didn't know that. I'm no musician mind you, never had a lesson.

So now I must ask, "WHY", Why are there 2 different ways to express the same note? Is it just to confuse us poor people without proper training? To keep us out of the divine circle of the musically enabled? Why must we be tortured so?

[JimLucas]

Well, there's also the Eb's vs. the D#'s on the third row, but I think you know those are just two different names for the same note.

AHA! I knew you'd be wrong about something! Actually I didn't know that. I'm no musician mind you, never had a lesson.

So now I must ask, "WHY", Why are there 2 different ways to express the same note?

Given your further questions, I don't think you want to know. ... Really.

 

Is it just to confuse us poor people without proper training? To keep us out of the divine circle of the musically enabled?

No, and no..

Here's a non-technical explanation:

In the alphabet, the letter C is named "C" (or spell it out as "cee", if you like), but it can also have other names, such as "the letter before D", or "the letter after B". Similarly, D#=Eb is a note between the notes D and E, and those symbols "#" and "b" mean, respectively, "but half a step higher" (so, "D, but half a step higher") and "but half a step lower.

If you want to know deeper reasons, the study can get quite complex, and I suspect you don't want to have to study those details, at least not right now. It gets into non-tempered scales (where "D#" and "Eb" are not exactly the same, though quite close, which is why the even-tempered scale simplifies things by making them actually the same) and the relative pleasantness or unpleasantness of different intervals in different temperaments. (There are prior threads on these topics here on concertina.net, so if you do want to learn more, you can Search for them.)

 

Why must we be tortured so?

I hope you'll see from the above that having those two names refer to the same note is not torture at all, but a simplification to save you a lot of pain... such as deciding when to play D# and when to play Eb... or even where to find them.

[drbones]

Given your further questions, I don't think you want to know. ... Really.

Well, this time you are correct, Sir. I'm sorry I asked.

Maybe I'll have another go at that when I become more familiar with the whole music theory thing.

All the same, I appreciate the explanation.

Edited July 14, 2009 by drbones

[drbones]

[Your top chart is exactly the layout of my 30-key Wheatstone, and I think can be safely thought of as the 'standard' Wheatstone layout.

Hope you enjoy your concertina when it comes.

Thanks, Steve

[Stephen Chambers]

I've bought a 30 button Wheatstone anglo ... Is this the correct chart for it? I found one for a 31 button Suttner Linota and it has some differences.

It may be worth adding that "Wheatstone Anglo" and "Linota" are synonyms, at least, up until World War 2. Linota was simply Wheatstone's trade mark for their range of Anglo concertinas, and not a particular model. Original ones would commonly have the D draw fingering on the bottom button of the G row, but that duplicates the draw D on the C row, whilst Irish players prefer the low A there - hence that is how Jurgen builds all of his.

 

If you've bought the 1932 one that I suspect, then it should be a very nice instrument.

[Steve_freereeder]

So now I must ask, "WHY", Why are there 2 different ways to express the same note?

Here's what I hope will be another simple explanation:

1. On a piano keyboard, the black notes can all have two names, depending on which scale one is playing in.

E.g.

C# = Db

D# = Eb

F# = Gb

G# = Ab

A# = Bb

 

2. A major scale consists of the note letter names always ascending in alphabetical order, with no duplicate note letter names occurring consecutively.

 

3. Only the first 7 letters of the alphabet are used. After the letter name G, one returns to A.

 

4. Hence a scale of C major has the notes C D E F G A B C (no sharps or flats needed)

 

5. To play a major scale starting on any note other than C, some sharps or flats will be needed in order to preserve the correct spacing between adjacent notes.

 

6. Hence a scale of G major has the notes G A B C D E F# G, and a scale of F major has the notes F G A Bb C D E F. Note how Rule 2 applies in both these cases: the letter names ascend in alphabetical order with no consecutive duplicate letters.

 

7. Now consider these two scales as examples:

The major scale of Eb has the following notes Eb F G Ab Bb C D Eb. Rules 2 applies.

The major scale of A has the following notes A B C# D E F# G# A. Rule 2 applies.

BUT - on the piano keyboard Ab and G# are played by the same black key.

 

8. Hence it would be incorrect to write the major scale of Eb as follows: Eb F G G# Bb C D Eb. Rule 2 is violated (two adjacent G letter names)

and similarly incorrect to write the scale of A major as A B C# D E F# Ab A. Rule 2 is violated (two adjacent A letter names)

 

9. So we need to use the correct letter name for the sharps and flats in a scale, depending on the context of which scale we are playing, and therefore every black note will have two names. We need to take care to use the correct one.

 

Hope this helps and does not confuse too much.

[drbones]

Hope this helps and does not confuse too much.

Actually, that makes sense. I can see how it would be less likely to confuse someone reading music and keep them thinking in the correct key. Still, I think I'll wait a while before starting my concerto.

Thanks for taking the time for such a thorough explanation. I think I actually learned something today.

[Torres Strait Anglo]

That note on the pull of the far left finger, G row, on the pull.

A or D? Which is better?

 

I have anglos in both, and (confusingly) Wheatstones in both.

 

I prefer an A in that position, as it works for playing octaves (D in that position just about ruins playing in octaves - for me)

 

Perhaps there is an exciting discovery ahead of me, but I haven't yet found any other use for that button (on the pull)

[JimLucas]

That note on the pull of the far left finger, G row, on the pull.

A or D? Which is better?

 

I have anglos in both, and (confusingly) Wheatstones in both.

 

I prefer an A in that position, as it works for playing octaves (D in that position just about ruins playing in octaves - for me)

 

Perhaps there is an exciting discovery ahead of me, but I haven't yet found any other use for that button (on the pull)

With that as a D, you get a pull D chord (or apeggio) with 3 buttons in a straight line.

 

Having said that, I'll also say that I don't find it a great advantage to have that pull D in line with the others. Its duplicate in the C row is handy enough. But I find that having the low A on the pull as well as the push is very helpful.

 

However, I have a 20-button Corelli anglo (in need of a new bellows) where that pull note is D and octave below the one in the C row, and that's a very nice bass note for D chords (also pull G chords).