Singing and Playing

[Brian Peters]

(Why would Brian play it in F? Because he can, I guess.)

As Howard has suggested, F is a great key for song accompaniments if your voice has the kind of range that mine has. Generally I like to sing at or near the upper end of my range, which goes comfortably up to top D or E. The point is that a lot of common 'folk' melodies have a top note of either the 5th or 6th notes of the scale (Coming Round the Mountain, Streets of London, Lincolnshire Poacher, Daisy Daisy, Wild Rover, Black Velvet Band all peak at the 5th; Blowing in the Wind, Fiddlers' Green, Don't Dilly Dally, Hear the Nightingale Sing at the 6th). In the scale of F, the 5th and 6th notes are C and D, in other words the top note of any of the aforementioned songs - in the key of F - would fall just where I like it. Sung in F, Accordion, which Bill N mentions, peaks at top D.

 

The basic chords of F, Bb and C are all easily available on a 30-button CG Anglo, albeit with a preponderance of chords on the pull. D minor is handy as well. So, if you base your accompaniments around chords rather than melody, it's not too difficult to play in F - although you might need to find a pushed alternative for the F chord, and that is likely to be a bit thin.

 

Playing melodies in F is altogether a different proposition if you're the kind of player who likes to use left hand chords, and everything then depends on the range of the tune. If most of the melody is at the upper end of the stave you're probably OK, but anything below the C above middle is going to take the melody on to your left hand, with all the problems that poses for chordal accompanists.

 

Nice to hear that Paul Morris is still out there making music, by the way. A great guy.

Brian

[michael sam wild]

(Why would Brian play it in F? Because he can, I guess.)

As Howard has suggested, F is a great key for song accompaniments if your voice has the kind of range that mine has. Generally I like to sing at or near the upper end of my range, which goes comfortably up to top D or E. The point is that a lot of common 'folk' melodies have a top note of either the 5th or 6th notes of the scale (Coming Round the Mountain, Streets of London, Lincolnshire Poacher, Daisy Daisy, Wild Rover, Black Velvet Band all peak at the 5th; Blowing in the Wind, Fiddlers' Green, Don't Dilly Dally, Hear the Nightingale Sing at the 6th). In the scale of F, the 5th and 6th notes are C and D, in other words the top note of any of the aforementioned songs - in the key of F - would fall just where I like it. Sung in F, Accordion, which Bill N mentions, peaks at top D.

 

The basic chords of F, Bb and C are all easily available on a 30-button CG Anglo, albeit with a preponderance of chords on the pull. D minor is handy as well. So, if you base your accompaniments around chords rather than melody, it's not too difficult to play in F - although you might need to find a pushed alternative for the F chord, and that is likely to be a bit thin.

 

Playing melodies in F is altogether a different proposition if you're the kind of player who likes to use left hand chords, and everything then depends on the range of the tune. If most of the melody is at the upper end of the stave you're probably OK, but anything below the C above middle is going to take the melody on to your left hand, with all the problems that poses for chordal accompanists.

 

Nice to hear that Paul Morris is still out there making music, by the way. A great guy.

Brian

[Bill N]

As Howard has suggested, F is a great key for song accompaniments if your voice has the kind of range that mine has. Generally I like to sing at or near the upper end of my range, which goes comfortably up to top D or E.

Nice to hear that Paul Morris is still out there making music, by the way. A great guy.

Brian

 

Thanks for the very useful post Brian. I'm working this song up for a ceilidh next week, as my first public attempt to sing and play at the same time. I've tried it in C, G & D. C works best, but in every case I'm either singing at the bottom of my (limited!) range, so my voice doesn't carry well over the concertina, or I'm really reaching past what's comfortable. I sang along with your CD, and F seemed to be a much better fit for my voice, so I've been busy transposing( a rather grand description of the comical trial & error excercise I'm actually undertaking) on my GD. Your notes will be most helpful. Not sure that I'll be ready for the ceilidh though!

 

I am really enjoying your CD. I went to the Cambridge session again this past weekend, and Paul led us in one of your tunes, "Millrace Waltz". (He told a good story about the circumstances of it's being written as well.) Very nice!

Edited February 11, 2009 by Bill N

[gavdav]

Dave Webber is amongst my favourite singing Anglo players, but then I really love his voice, and Tom Brown on English is pretty good too!

 

I taught myself (for my sins) to play by listening to Peter Bellamy so I guess I also play in an idiosyncratic style, probably rescued only by the timely input of the late Barry Callaghan. Still Howard's comment that Bellamy's style is hard to imitate at least makes me think my hamfisted playing is kind of clever in its own way

 

Gav (off to work out this playing in F thing!!!)

[Brian Peters]

I went to the Cambridge session again this past weekend, and Paul led us in one of your tunes, "Millrace Waltz". (He told a good story about the circumstances of it's being written as well.) Very nice!

Kind of Paul, Brad et al to keep that tune in circulation, although since it was written on Paul's front step, in honour of Brad's festival, I suppose they have a vested interest. I believe they sometimes play The Blossom and the Rain in that session as well.

 

Someone who plays really nice accompaniments in F is Andy Turner. He has some tracks on Anglo International and is a member of the excellent Magpie Lane.

[Ptarmigan]

Mike,

 

Just in case you didn't spot this, David Corner posted a few names of Concertina players in Scotland, who he believes sing & play at the same time:

 

Archie Fisher,

Pete Heywood,

Erland Voy,

Duncan McLennan,

Geordie McIntyre,

& Jim Reid

 

To his list, I added a couple of names:

 

Hamish Bayne,

Norman Chalmers,

John Gahagan,

& Brian McNeill

 

See the English Concertina Players in Scotland thread.

 

Cheers

Dick

[Ptarmigan]

On the subject of Playing & Singing:

 

Steve Turner @ Edinburgh Folk Club {Feb 4th '09}

 

Unfortunately I wasn't able to fly home to catch this gig.

 

I wonder when he'll next be touring Ireland?

 

Cheers

Dick

[hjcjones]

you might need to find a pushed alternative for the F chord, and that is likely to be a bit thin.

 

That's true - with a standard 30-key C/G, the F-push chord is a bit thin - but then so is the C-pull chord and that doesn't seem to be much of a problem.

 

On my 40-key I can play an acceptable push-F chord (although it lacks a good low note compared with the pull-F) as I have an F one of the extra buttons. On my 31-key G/D the LH thumb button is tuned to C, which gives me the equivalent chord. Without these extra buttons, the best you can try to do is keep the occasions you need an F-push chord as short as possible and plan your bellows movements to play F and Bb on the pull as much as you can, and take advantage of the push-C chord to close the bellows.

[Ptarmigan]

Mike, has anyone mentioned Alistair Brown yet?

 

He appears to be in exile in Cornwall.

 

Alistair Brown ~ Deil In The Lum

 

Cheers

Dick

[michael sam wild]

Thanks Dick I will order the CD what a nice voice!.

 

 

it just shows that a deeper voice can sing along to a treble quite nicely. It's all giving me a lot to think about

[Ptarmigan]

Thanks Dick I will order the CD what a nice voice!.

Aye, it's thon Scottish accent fit does it Michael .... ye ken!

[michael sam wild]

Arrh! a knoah whaht tha meeans

[LangoLee]

it just shows that a deeper voice can sing along to a treble quite nicely.

 

Yes: conventional wisdom states that song accompaniment should stick to the lower notes, and most singing EC players (at least the ones who get paid to perform) seem to acquire tenor-trebles for that purpose, but I'm interested in experiments with the 'verboten' upper range on a standard treble, and to see what one can do without going below middle C. With reference to earlier performers, Alf Edwards's accompaniments for A.L. Lloyd often seem pretty trebly.

 

There is something to be said for sometimes producing an accompaniment in tension with the voice, rather than unobtrusively supporting it (e.g. Vaughan William's Ten Blake Songs, which pit a tenor against the starkness of an oboe).

[Anglo-Irishman]

Thanks Dick I will order the CD what a nice voice!.

 

 

it just shows that a deeper voice can sing along to a treble quite nicely. It's all giving me a lot to think about

 

Yes, nice stuff!

 

I think one point you have to think about is that the accompaniment should not "interfere" with the voice. That is, it should not be in the same "waveband", so to speak. I have a baritone voice, and I come across quite well singing with C/G anglo. I mostly sing to 5-string banjo or autoharp, which are both well into the upper frequency range.

Someone with a high voice might have to avoid these very instruments, preferring a guitar with plenty of thumb, or a lower-pitched concertina.

 

Cheers,

John

[Ptarmigan]

Arrh! a knoah whaht tha meeans

Hey Michael, I didn't know you were a Glaswegian neighbour of Billy Connolly!

[michael sam wild]

Arrh! a knoah whaht tha meeans

Hey Michael, I didn't know you were a Glaswegian neighbour of Billy Connolly!

 

 

That was meant to be South Yorkshire, it must have lost it in the translation!

[michael sam wild]

Just a quick re-visit. I've been having some lessons with Brian Peters who lives over the hill from us ( we're snowed up at the moment so until the A57 Snake Pass is open it could be a while yet). It has been a great discipline to do the practice and be ready for the next lesson. There's nowhere to hide! I think Jody Kruskal mentioned that focus too.

 

I have a 30 button Jones C/G and am happy to work on the same keys that Brian uses on his C/G although he has some more buttons on his Crabb.

 

Because I have been playing mainly Irish and related music in G, D, Am, Em etc on C/G it took some concentration to play in the home key of C (Although my previous mouth organ and C/F melodeon experience led me back to the old push pull quite nicely) and the chord shapes have twisted my fingers into some weird positions!

 

 

I have mainly been an unaccompanied singer for years but I'd welcome some suggestions for songs in C or G that would go nicely on the C/G. I'm sure F will come later as Brian likes the key.

 

I don't want to lose the freedom of timing that unaccompanied singing allows so I'm not just talking of jolly songs and 'shanties' etc much as I love them.

 

 

Any good 'dark' songs for a free anglo accompaniment?

 

Lots of time to practice amidst the ice and snow up here on Skye Edge . I can see why they iimprisoned Mary Queen of Scots just over the field at Sheffield Manor Castle. You can see for miles in all directions "burrit dun't aife blow cowd! " ( Not Mary's pronunciation, she probably had a French accent)

Edited January 8, 2010 by michael sam wild

[LHMark]

The reason I picked up concertina in the first place is I was tired of being JUST the singer in my band (The Sisters of Murphy). My guitarists were better than I was, so I let them have that role, and needed something different, interesting, and fitting for the sound.

 

We do a bunch of pub tunes, and a lot of Pogues covers. When I sing, I'm mostly tapping out the chords on the backbeat, but I also handle the leads on some tunes. I'm finally able to play the lead line and sing the vocal line of "Sunnyside of the Street" with some success. Now if only I could stop my ham-fingers from messing up the B chord...