thehomevillecircle Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Is there any rhyme or reason to the Chemitzer layout? I can't even figure out how to play a scale on the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggie Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Yes there is but it depends on two things, Is your concertina actually a Chemitzer and what key is it in? What scale do you want to play? If you check this thread there are links to keyboard layouts Thread concering layouts All the best Steve PS I play Bandoneon and the logicality is even less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehomevillecircle Posted December 31, 2007 Author Share Posted December 31, 2007 (edited) It says "Chemitzer" on it, I think. It's my bandmate's, and we share instruments a lot. Neither of us can find any logical pattern to the layout. It sounds very nice though. And it looks great! Edited December 31, 2007 by thehomevillecircle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Is there any rhyme or reason to the Chemitzer layout? At it's heart you should find the "core" notes of a 20-key German (or Anglo) concertina, but beyond that is another story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Is there any rhyme or reason to the Chemitzer layout? At it's heart you should find the "core" notes of a 20-key German (or Anglo) concertina, but beyond that is another story... Not a player, but pondered a lot, so my impression is that a Chemnitzer, like a Bandoneon, are pretty logical, but only in their keys. Just like Anlgo Concertina in the keys of C/G is reasonably logical in the keys of C and G, Bandoneon is OK in the keys of A, and Chemnitzer in the key of ...? If you try to play a scale in C maj, you probably make one of those mistakes. The reason of Chemnitzer layer, as I understand it, is to duplicate LH notes in the RH, to allow two octaves continuously on the RH for melody, leaving LH for accompaniment. Plus, considering it's heavy weight, to minimize necessity of push/pulling, so most of the notes are duplicated in the push and pull. So in the core 20 buttons it's very regular push/pull German layout. But the accidentals are located wherever there was a place for it. So if you are really inclined, begin with diatonic tune in the home key. Then perhaps move the melody to the next key to find the next accidental. Etc. until you will find all the accidentals for the tune in all common keys. Then move it to next octave. It's kind of boring but I deem it's very reasonable way to learn the keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Hersh Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 The "core" rows of a Chemnitzer are a whole tone apart (rather than a fifth apart as on an Anglo). The most common keys for those rows are G and A, but other keys are not at all unusual. Is there any rhyme or reason to the Chemitzer layout? At it's heart you should find the "core" notes of a 20-key German (or Anglo) concertina, but beyond that is another story... Not a player, but pondered a lot, so my impression is that a Chemnitzer, like a Bandoneon, are pretty logical, but only in their keys. Just like Anlgo Concertina in the keys of C/G is reasonably logical in the keys of C and G, Bandoneon is OK in the keys of A, and Chemnitzer in the key of ...? If you try to play a scale in C maj, you probably make one of those mistakes. The reason of Chemnitzer layer, as I understand it, is to duplicate LH notes in the RH, to allow two octaves continuously on the RH for melody, leaving LH for accompaniment. Plus, considering it's heavy weight, to minimize necessity of push/pulling, so most of the notes are duplicated in the push and pull. So in the core 20 buttons it's very regular push/pull German layout. But the accidentals are located wherever there was a place for it. So if you are really inclined, begin with diatonic tune in the home key. Then perhaps move the melody to the next key to find the next accidental. Etc. until you will find all the accidentals for the tune in all common keys. Then move it to next octave. It's kind of boring but I deem it's very reasonable way to learn the keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Marino Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 To add more fun to the mess. I have acquired a 38 button "F. Lange, Chemnitz Saxony" Chemnitzer Concertina. I can not find a layout for the 38 button item at all. it is numbered on both sides in an interesting fashion. As there are whole numbers and fractionals which go as below: Left Hand 1 2 3 4 0 5 6 7 8 9 1/0 10 11 12 13 14 Right Hand 2/0 1/0 1 2 3 4 0 4/0 3/0 5 6 7 8 9 15 6/0 5/0 10 11 12 13 14 It is "Tradional" squarish shaped with with voicing holes drilled on the right besides the forward facing three large holes on each side. The Air lever works fine and is intact. The instrument appears to be in tune to itself (over all flat by a variation of about 12 to 16 cents) though there are a few exceptions (using TuneIt Software with a Plantronics microphone). So before I go trying to bring the beauty into "proper" tuning is there anything I should know about a pre 1939 accord (that caused A=440 to come into existence) German instrument should be tuned. As we own a Harmonium that is and will remain tuned to A=452 (Old Victorian). As my intent is to get into as playable condition as possible as the bellows are in outstandingly good condition for their age and are beautiful purple with silver printing centered is a Lute and on both sides an upright U with what appears to be a stylized L woven into it (I will weep greatly when the day comes that they have to be replaced and will do my best to have them reproduced to maintain the beauty). It has a single central frame which has fillagre edge caps. A number of the other edge caps have come of and either need to just be re affixed or replaced as not all the missing ones came with it (luckily have a good source for accordion parts and should be able to get some that match). So, does Any know what the note pattern should be to the above number layout? The next question is can anyone give me a reasonable time frame of manufacture? I know pre WW II but how far is a different story. Thanks for any and all information. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Marino Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Have an update and further question (finding answers does this at times). Okay for key layout you can go to www.concertinamusic.com/sbox/keyboard.html and there is information there which should help you a good bit as it is helping me alot. Now here is the problem, it is a 38 button Chemnitzer most likely early model as it is tuned to Harmonic pitch, with A=438, and is in the key of C. Personally the idea of retuning her completely is heretical to me but I would like to be able to play with other instruments; so..... .....Since I know these really good folks in the Czech republic I am looking at asking them if they would be willing to make a set of reeds for her that match modern concert pitch and very carefully store the originals in a storage piece that I will make for them (Setting so the valves will be hanging down and not on their sides). Any input on this would be welcomed. She is a wonderful instrument and sounds good now and looks like it is going to be wonderful to play. I just hope that I don't have to replace these beautiful bellows anytime soon. To correct my earlier statement they have what appears to be a gold/silver ink type stamping that has going from front to back a Lyre, Lute, Chemnitzer Concertina. With between them an upright capital U and a stylized capital L woven into the U, with tasteful filigree along the edges. Looks very similar to one pictured in Harry Geuns collection only it has the F. Lange logo across from the air vent grill. Thanks for any and all in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wntrmute Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 I have a 38 button/76 key anglo-chemnitzer hybrid goofy looking thing, that is discussed HERE (along with some speculation with regards to the history stuff). A practical resource for the button layouts would be HERE and HERE, just match up the numbers and the buttons and ignore the buttons in the pictures that you don't have. It should match up pretty well. To figure out what key the Chemnizter is in, push either of the '5' buttons, and you should hear an 'A' note if the box is in 'C.' Which is completely different from the anglo, where the analogue to the '5' buttons on a C/G 'tina would sound a 'C.' Likewize, the left hand '7' button would be the A below middle C on a Chemnitzer, whereas on an C/G anglo it would be middle C. Because life isn't confusing enough already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithfre Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Since I know these really good folks in the Czech republic I am looking at asking them if they would be willing to make a set of reeds for her that match modern concert pitch I'd be very interested to know what a new set of Czech reeds costs in a unisonoric, symmetrical (as far as possible) layout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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