Help To Purchase An Instrument.

[Anglogeezer]

Surfing the web, as you do!, I came across the following scheme run by the Arts Council of England.

 

TAKE IT AWAY

 

Take it away is an Arts Council initiative designed to help more people get involved in learning and playing music. The scheme allows individuals to apply for a loan of up to £2,000 for the purchase of any kind of musical instrument, and pay it back in nine monthly instalments, completely interest free.

 

With 0%APR thats better than asking your bank manager!!

 

So concertina-istas it's time to upgrade!!

 

regards

Jake

[asdormire]

Surfing the web, as you do!, I came across the following scheme run by the Arts Council of England.

 

TAKE IT AWAY

 

Take it away is an Arts Council initiative designed to help more people get involved in learning and playing music. The scheme allows individuals to apply for a loan of up to £2,000 for the purchase of any kind of musical instrument, and pay it back in nine monthly instalments, completely interest free.

 

With 0%APR thats better than asking your bank manager!!

 

So concertina-istas it's time to upgrade!!

 

regards

Jake

 

Looks ok if you are a UK resident or retailer. A shame though that looking through the details that this doesn't help the Wally Carrolls, Bob Tedrows or Frank Edgelys of the world (or individual makers of other instruments outside of the UK). Reading through the mail order rules, it seems they still wish someone to use the preferred stores on the list. It would have been nice if some of these makers of fine instruments could have been included.

 

Alan

[Anglogeezer]

I would hope that if you went to one of their selected retailers ie: Hobgoblin in Leeds and asked them to obtain an instrument from a particular maker they would do so.

After all the scheme has been set up to help.

I suppose, with a couple of phone calls to set things up, you could order direct from the maker of your choice to be delivered via one of the selected retailers??

 

regards

Jake

[JimLucas]

Surfing the web, as you do!, I came across the following scheme run by the Arts Council of England.

 

TAKE IT AWAY

 

Take it away is an Arts Council initiative designed to help more people get involved in learning and playing music. The scheme allows individuals to apply for a loan of up to £2,000 for the purchase of any kind of musical instrument, and pay it back in nine monthly instalments, completely interest free.

 

With 0%APR thats better than asking your bank manager!!

 

So concertina-istas it's time to upgrade!!

A few thoughts:

1. Is 9 months a reasonable period in which to expect "those on lower incomes" to be able to pay back £1800? (Note that the first 10% must be paid at point of sale.) That's £200/month.
   
2. The term used is "participating stores". Not "sellers" or "dealers" -- which could conceivably include makers, -- but "stores".
   
3. How does a seller become "participating"? Maybe I didn't dig deep enough, but I didn't notice the requirements for this.
   
4. I see five Hobgoblin stores in the "participating" list, I don't see The Music Room. (Musicroom seems to be a different chain, and Cleckheaton is definitely not there.)
   
5. Well, the description of the rules does say "any musical instrument", though free reed instruments are not represented in the "Guide to instrument and service icons", nor in the "filter on instrument" list. A keyword search on "accordion" did turn up several stores, but a search on "concertina" produced, "Your search returned 0 results".
   

Looks ok if you are a UK resident or retailer.

Actually, it says that the program is currently available only in England, but may in the future be extended to Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, if their Arts Councils decide to join in.

 

A shame though that looking through the details that this doesn't help the Wally Carrolls, Bob Tedrows or Frank Edgelys of the world (or individual makers of other instruments outside of the UK). Reading through the mail order rules, it seems they still wish someone to use the preferred stores on the list.

It looks very much like that. Color me cynical, but I get the impression that this program is designed more to benefit the participating businesses than the aspiring musicians. Their "news" item for 3 December says, "Since the launch of Take it away in July, over one million pounds worth of instruments have been sold." Not "purchased", but "sold". And even with zero interest, the loans are still loans, not grants.

[JimLucas]

I would hope that if you went to one of their selected retailers ie: Hobgoblin in Leeds and asked them to obtain an instrument from a particular maker they would do so.

At what markup?

 

After all the scheme has been set up to help.

By now you'll have seen my post suggesting who I think it really helps.

 

I suppose, with a couple of phone calls to set things up, you could order direct from the maker of your choice to be delivered via one of the selected retailers??

The retailer would still want to charge a markup, no?

[oggie]

A few thoughts -

 

Yes there would be a mark up on any instrument. Businesses have to make money. Even the maker puts a mark up on it over and above the costs, it's how businesses grow.

 

OK Musicroom aren't there (neither are many other chains) but Hobgoblin have a reasonable stock (and a box I've got my eyes on)

 

Very few people will use the whole amount. For a £500 instrument it's a better deal than plastic.

 

It may not be perfect but if it weren't there then no-one could benefit and everyone would be worse off.

 

Th Arts Council now just covers England (post devolution). The rest of the UK have their own bodies woth their own priorities.

 

All the best

 

Steve

[Woody]

Blimey! What a miserable bunch.

 

Somebody gets off their backsides and makes an effort to help musicians and what you get are moans. No great surprise that others don't bother!

 

 

To answer a couple of specific points...

 

A shame though that looking through the details that this doesn't help the Wally Carrolls, Bob Tedrows or Frank Edgelys of the world

Why should it? They're businesses in the US, this is a scheme in England.

 

I see five Hobgoblin stores in the "participating" list, I don't see The Music Room.

 

They have to apply to be part of the scheme - Hobgoblin were part of the pilot scheme. From the FAQ "The application process for new retailers wishing to participate in the scheme will open in January 2008 for the next financial year."

 

So re: the previous point... if Music Room apply and are accepted then Morses will be covered by the scheme.

 

 

Color me cynical, but I get the impression that this program is designed more to benefit the participating businesses than the aspiring musicians.

 

Good grief! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Edited December 28, 2007 by Woody

[Geoffrey Crabb]

I would hope that if you went to one of their selected retailers ie: Hobgoblin in Leeds and asked them to obtain an instrument from a particular maker they would do so.

After all the scheme has been set up to help.

I suppose, with a couple of phone calls to set things up, you could order direct from the maker of your choice to be delivered via one of the selected retailers??

 

regards

Jake

 

My own thoughts on this.

 

There are various schemes which can help purchasers, financially, obtain musical instruments and this is great where an instrument is readily available.

As many will realise, at the moment, concertinas of any desired current maker, whether new or used, are not normally readily available.

Unfortunately there seems to be no financial help for the majority of those whose sole income is derived from making new concertinas.

No matter by what path a concertina is sought, the makers seem to be 'expected' to meet the demand that such schemes raise. Without similar favourable financial help to increase output and hopefully reduce price , I do not believe that it is possible for those making 'reasonable' instruments to meet that demand.

 

Geoff

[Chris Drinkwater]

I see that "Take It Away" is open to everyone (over the age of 18). And that their priorities are: to encourage children and young people to develop their interests and skills in music making. Hmm, does anyone know any children over the age of 18? Apart from me, that is!

 

Chris

[JimLucas]

I see that "Take It Away" is open to everyone (over the age of 18). And that their priorities are: to encourage children and young people to develop their interests and skills in music making. Hmm, does anyone know any children over the age of 18? Apart from me, that is!

Well, it does say that one can use the program to buy an instrument (or instruments) for someone else. So presumably those under 18 are expected to enlist the help of their parents... or other willing over-18's.

 

Interestingly, while the loan limit for a single purchase is £2000, they say, "You can also have different loans with different outlets running concurrently." So it seems that one could actually borrow quite a bundle, but would then be required to spread the wealth over multiple "outlets".

[hjcjones]

It's a great idea, and its nice to see the Arts Council encouraging participation - all too often it gives the impression that the arts are only for professionals, and we exist merely as paying customers. But it's half-cocked, and not as helpful as it appears at first glance. 0% interest sounds very attractive, but the payback period is too short (9 months) and you have to pay the 10% deposit. So if you borrow the maximum, that's £222.22 per month - that's quite a lot out of taxed income. Plus the £200 deposit.

 

What makes a loan affordable is not the rate of interest but the monthly repayment. You could borrow the full £2200 (£200 deposit + £2000 loan) at commercial rates over two years and pay less than £100 per month - that's much more affordable; OK, you end up paying an additional couple of hundred in interest, but you don't need to find the initial deposit. Borrow over a longer period and the monthly payments are of course even lower.

 

It's a pity they don't offer it on the same basis as the Cycle to Work Scheme, which allows you to buy a bike out of pre-taxed income, which means you can get one for effectively up to half-price.

 

The other problem is that you can only purchase through specific retailers. This makes it difficult for anyone after a "non-mainstream" instrument (not just concertinas), or who wants something from a specific instrument maker, or from a private seller.

 

It's clearly helping a lot of people to buy instruments, and that's a good thing. But the rules they've put in place make it (probably unintentionally) too narrow. In particular, it is unlikely to be of much assistance to a young aspiring professional musician or music student, who needs a good-quality instrument which they may not be able to obtain from the relatively restricted list of retailers (this is not to say that those retailers don't stock good quality instruments, rather that such a player will have their own particular needs and will need to track down exactly the right instrument from wherever it can be obtained).

[asdormire]

A shame though that looking through the details that this doesn't help the Wally Carrolls, Bob Tedrows or Frank Edgelys of the world

Why should it? They're businesses in the US, this is a scheme in England.

 

I see five Hobgoblin stores in the "participating" list, I don't see The Music Room.

 

They have to apply to be part of the scheme - Hobgoblin were part of the pilot scheme. From the FAQ "The application process for new retailers wishing to participate in the scheme will open in January 2008 for the next financial year."

 

So re: the previous point... if Music Room apply and are accepted then Morses will be covered by the scheme.

 

 

As to it being a scheme in England, are you telling me that C F Martin, Gibson, Yamaha or Wim Wakker aren't benefitting? My point was more that the custom makers of any instrument will not be able to take advantage or this offer. By the way, Frank is in Windsor Ontario, which, while sometimes considered a Detroit suburb, is still part of Canada. I purposely didn't include The Button Box as they do import to the UK, though I didn't look at the participating list.

 

Alan

[asdormire]

Looks ok if you are a UK resident or retailer.

Actually, it says that the program is currently available only in England, but may in the future be extended to Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, if their Arts Councils decide to join in.

 

 

My comment as to being a UK resident came from the question page where it was stated:

 

"Can I use the scheme if I am a student/retired/houseperson/unemployed person?

Yes, you just need to be over 18 and a UK resident to be eligible to apply for a loan."

 

Later it says:

 

"Is the scheme available outside England?

At the moment Take it away is only available through retailers based in England. However, the scheme may be extended to cover other parts of UK in the near future, in partnership with the Arts Councils of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland."

 

So from this combination of information, I assumed any UK resident could participate, as long as they bought from one of the participating retailers in England. If I misunderstood this information, I apologize.

 

Alan

[JimLucas]

"Can I use the scheme if I am a student/retired/houseperson/unemployed person?

Yes, you just need to be over 18 and a UK resident to be eligible to apply for a loan."

 

Later it says:

 

"Is the scheme available outside England?

At the moment Take it away is only available through retailers based in England. However, the scheme may be extended to cover other parts of UK in the near future, in partnership with the Arts Councils of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland."

 

So from this combination of information, I assumed any UK resident could participate, as long as they bought from one of the participating retailers in England. If I misunderstood this information, I apologize.

Nope. I agree with your interpretation. That is what it says.

[sandy d]

What a pity that England stops at Yorkshire. No chance of getting anything if you live in the northeast, unless you want to travel 100miles.