Concertina Electronic Amplification

[gabury]

I am playing my Wheatstone (English) with some folks in coffee houses and pubs every now and then and I get drowned out by the whistles, fiddle, bodran, guitars and mandolin. They are not plugged in but I need to be. When I have played with a mike I have to hold the instrument very close to the mike. If I hold it below the mike it doesn't pick up much of the sound and if I hold it beside the mike then it picks up only the right or left side of the concertina and only half the notes are heard.

 

I've been puzzling about what to do. I'm thinking maybe I can attach a small pick up on each end and run it through a pre-amp and then to a small portable battery operated amp so I can turn up the volume to the level of the instruments around me. Anyone out there with suggestions?

 

Geoff Bury

Bonney Lake, WA

[Jim Besser]

I am playing my Wheatstone (English) with some folks in coffee houses and pubs every now and then and I get drowned out by the whistles, fiddle, bodran, guitars and mandolin. They are not plugged in but I need to be. When I have played with a mike I have to hold the instrument very close to the mike. If I hold it below the mike it doesn't pick up much of the sound and if I hold it beside the mike then it picks up only the right or left side of the concertina and only half the notes are heard.

 

I've been puzzling about what to do. I'm thinking maybe I can attach a small pick up on each end and run it through a pre-amp and then to a small portable battery operated amp so I can turn up the volume to the level of the instruments around me. Anyone out there with suggestions?

 

Search C.net for Microvox. Much discussion of these velcroed-on mics. I know Morris players who use them with very small amps, and it works fine..

[Mark Evans]

Search C.net for Microvox. Much discussion of these velcroed-on mics. I know Morris players who use them with very small amps, and it works fine..

 

I wonder Jim, can one control the volume level, say for back up rifs and chording?

[jon melville]

By far the best way is to position two mics either side of the instrument. Problem lies in having to stay still and be surrounded by mics and stands.

 

The Microvox system is a simple alternative, a mic on each end (which unfortunately picks up closer reeds louder) connected to a belt-pack power supply and DI box.

 

There is a volume control on the box but you cannot adjust it on the fly. You could use a volume pedal, or just squeeze less hard!

[Mark Evans]

By far the best way is to position two mics either side of the instrument. Problem lies in having to stay still and be surrounded by mics and stands.

 

The Microvox system is a simple alternative, a mic on each end (which unfortunately picks up closer reeds louder) connected to a belt-pack power supply and DI box.

 

There is a volume control on the box but you cannot adjust it on the fly. You could use a volume pedal, or just squeeze less hard!

 

 

As I suspected. The squeeze less hard with a hybrid like mine can cause a reed not to speak.

 

I used to use a Shure 57 on each side of the instrument, but it was confining. Foot pedal, hmm, maybe a phase shifter as well .

Edited March 25, 2007 by Mark Evans

[Jim Besser]

Search C.net for Microvox. Much discussion of these velcroed-on mics. I know Morris players who use them with very small amps, and it works fine..

 

I wonder Jim, can one control the volume level, say for back up rifs and chording?

 

Yes, but you have to reach down to the power supply on your belt. I'm getting better at doing it on the fly, but it's still somewhat awkward. A foot pedal would be nice, but I think that's beyond my current electronics capabilities.

[Jody Kruskal]

Search C.net for Microvox. Much discussion of these velcroed-on mics. I know Morris players who use them with very small amps, and it works fine..

 

I wonder Jim, can one control the volume level, say for back up rifs and chording?

 

Yes, but you have to reach down to the power supply on your belt. I'm getting better at doing it on the fly, but it's still somewhat awkward. A foot pedal would be nice, but I think that's beyond my current electronics capabilities.

 

When I need reinforcement I use the microvox mics on little two inch arms that I made myself. The arms velcro to the box and even out the volume differences between reeds somewhat. Pedals are cool. I use this one, a Korg Toneworks-AX30G-Guitar-Processor. You have to program your own patches as none of the presets are very appropriate, but once you have worked out how to do it, there is a whole new dimension to how to approach playing at a gig. There are lots of these kinds of toys around, but what I like about this one are the dedicated pedals and the pressure pedal that lets you dynamically control any parameter you want, be it volume, vibrato, reverb, wetness or whatever.

 

I use it at noisy gigs and dances mostly. I prefer no mics at all, but sometimes that's not an option.

[Jim Besser]

between reeds somewhat. Pedals are cool. I use

this one, a Korg Toneworks-AX30G-Guitar-Processor. You have to program your own patches as none of the presets are very appropriate, but once you have

 

Jody--

 

You've played Glen Echo; is this processor something that connects to that kind of system without a lot of hassle?

 

I don't want to fuss with a lot of electronics, but I'd love to be able to control the Microvox volume with a pedal.

[Jody Kruskal]

 

Jody--

 

You've played Glen Echo; is this processor something that connects to that kind of system without a lot of hassle?

 

I don't want to fuss with a lot of electronics, but I'd love to be able to control the Microvox volume with a pedal.

 

Hi Jim,

 

Grand Picnic played at Glen Echo in Washington two weeks ago. It's huge, 300 could dance there, though we had somewhat less than that. Their hall acoustics, sound system and technician are all excellent. I could hear everything clearly. In that situation mics alone would have worked fine. I really need my board when we play those echo filled gyms with poor sound systems and amateurs running them.

 

Yes, it’s easy to plug right into the mixer or better yet through a direct box via 1/4 inch phone jack. I used my board to get louder and also to gain presence for solos. My patches have a lot more that just volume though. EQ, reverb, compression and much more.

 

One patch I use effectively but sparingly allows me to get a wetter sound (two notes close but not identical in pitch). The harder I press on the pedal, the more the two pitches diverge, up to about 15 or 20 cents ie. very wet. Light pressure is more like 5 cents. This is how some accordions are tuned, so the sound is traditional, that is to say, it’s not a concertina sound but it’s not so weird either and it works well with our five piece band. Seven at Glen Echo because Danny Novick and a local sax player were sitting in. The wetness really cuts through our wall of sound without actually being louder, just much more present.

 

Another patch is highly compressed so that I have almost no dynamic control and lots of attack. That one is great for tunes that go into the low range on my G/D. If I’m playing melody it keeps the low notes from getting lost. When I play other stuff I don’t use that patch.

 

Using the board does take some practice at home and attention at the gig, but it's not really hard. You just whack the pedal with your foot and presto, there is your new timbre. My board is lots of fun. I think midi would be too for the same reasons. Some day I’ll try it so I can be the horn section.

[Chris Timson]

I am playing my Wheatstone (English) with some folks in coffee houses and pubs every now and then and I get drowned out by the whistles, fiddle, bodran, guitars and mandolin. They are not plugged in but I need to be.

To be honest, I find that a bit puzzling. Usually a concertina can cut through quite sizeable assemblies of musicians. Admittedly I play a Jeffries, but I can hear myself in a Radway session of 50-odd musicians in a fairly small room without too much difficulty. Wheatstones aren't usually shrinking violets either, so it might be that others can hear you clearly but you can't (what with the sound coming out of the sides). In that case amplifying yourself in an otherwise acoustic session might be regarded as a little anti-social.

 

If your concertina has baffles in you might consider taking them out, if you can do so in such a way that the operation can be reversed. Alternatively you might try just pushing harder!

 

Chris

[Jim Besser]

Grand Picnic played at Glen Echo in Washington two weeks ago. It's huge, 300 could dance there, though we had somewhat less than that. Their hall acoustics, sound system and technician are all excellent. I could hear everything clearly. In that situation mics alone would have worked fine. I really need my board when we play those echo filled gyms with poor sound systems and amateurs running them.

 

It's a great hall and a huge, booming sound system. I believe they have subwoofers under the floor. The first time I was hooked up to it was terrifying; it felt like they could hear me up in Pennsylvania.

 

The processor you use: can it be used right of the box to control volume? That's my first priority.

 

Then, your patches: how are these implemented? Pardon my complete ignorance, this stuff is way above my pay grade. The idea of producing a wetter sound to cut through the wall of sound is intriguing.

Edited March 26, 2007 by Jim Besser

[Jody Kruskal]

"The processor you use: can it be used right of the box to control volume? That's my first priority.

 

Then, your patches: how are these implemented? Pardon my complete ignorance, this stuff is way above my pay grade. The idea of producing a wetter sound to cut through the wall of sound is intriguing."

 

Jim, no not right out of the box. You have to set it up the way you want to use it. Perhaps an hour of reading the manual and learning the machine would do you for something as simple as 4 pedals with varying volume levels.

 

Fancier stuff is not hard, RTM man.

 

If you just want volume, get a simple foot pedal just for that, but be warned, they take practice to use them musically.

Edited March 26, 2007 by Jody Kruskal

[Jim Besser]

Fancier stuff is not hard, RTM man.

 

Oh, so you're telling me I actually have to WORK to get this thing going.

 

Well, I suppose it's worth it. Think I'll look for a good deal and then fool around with the thing on my own system before bringing it to GE.

[gabury]

Thank you all for your advise. Now to sift and research!

 

Geoff

[fiddlersgreen]

Before you mic your concertina I would suggest recording yourself from the opposite side of the room. I know when I sit across from other concertina players it is amazing how loud they can be. Folks tell me they can hear me fine even though I don't think any sound is getting out at all.

 

I do like the idea of putting the micro-vox mics on small arms, I should try that with mine and reduce some of the mechanical noise. Geoff, if you do go with the micro-vox, small arms that can be moved in or out to each side of the concertina should give you a method of volume control without touching the control box. Mike

[Tootler]

There is a volume control on the box but you cannot adjust it on the fly. You could use a volume pedal, or just squeeze less hard!

 

I used to use a volume pedal on a mic on a contrabass recorder to give it volume when I played with brass instruments a while back. I plugged the mic into the volume pedal then plugged the volume pedal into the amp. It worked very well and gave me a reasonable dynamic range, something recorders do not naturally have.

 

Geoff