Merits Of An Extra F#

[LAFidel]

I find it puzzling that the standard Anglo concertina layout has only one F#2 and 3 C#3's. Out of curiosity, I checked the number of tunes listed at the Session website in the key of Gmajor (1718) vs. Dmajor (1722) vs. Amajor (416). Clearly, there is a lot of potential demand for the F#2, but usually only one option for playing it: with the left hand, 4th or 5th finger, on the draw.

 

This doesn't make sense for a couple of reasons. First, most people are right-handed and will never be able to develop the prehensile skill and dexterity in the left hand that they possess on the dominant side. Second, the 4th and 5th fingers of either hand are the least dextrous of all the digits, particularly on the non-dominant side. Third, playing F#2 is an oppositional activity; that is, one must press the button and pull the bellows apart. This requires considerably more coordination to accomplish quickly than a press-press set of actions. Finally, playing any note on the draw is inherently destabilizing because the bellows arm is moving away from midline and the support provided by the trunk.

 

When I acquired Carroll #6 last year, I found that Wally had customized the layout to replace the standard C#3/D#3 on key 17 of the right accidental row with F#2/D#3. What a versatile improvement this has turned out to be! I now have the option of playing F#2 with the 3rd, and relatively dextrous finger of my dominant right hand. With the C#3/C#3 combination on key 16, there is no shortage of C#'s and the other one has not been missed at all. I'd be interested to know if anyone else has added an F#2 and what their experience has been with the modification.

[Greg Jowaisas]

Once you depart from in row playing having a different fingering system could make a lot of sense, especially getting the F# under a stronger finger. I think Wally Carroll has also experimented and become fairly facile with having an F# replace the pulled F in the adjacent C row.

 

The problem comes when you pick up someone else's concertina....

 

So, at least right now, while an individual layout change makes sense, you are swimming upstream in regards to "current" concertina convention.

 

That is not to say you shouldn't lead the revolution!

 

Greg

[Michael Reid]

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has added an F#2 and what their experience has been with the modification.

I haven't tried it yet but I've been thinking about it for a concertina I have on order. What I might do is deviate from the most common Jeffries layout, putting an F#2 on the press on the first button of the RH accidental row. This would displace a D#, which would still be present on the draw of the second button in that row. In the Jeffries layout, the other notes on these buttons would both be C#. I use both of these C# and rarely use either D#, and so far it seems to me that I could get along fine without a press D#.

[Frank Edgley]

LAfidel: "This doesn't make sense for a couple of reasons. First, most people are right-handed and will never be able to develop the prehensile skill and dexterity in the left hand that they possess on the dominant side."

 

Response: First, let me say that I agree that a press F# is handy at times. It can be placed in several locations, and the one you describe is a very workable option. However, the argument that I've heard about finger choices for playing notes, i.e. using the stronger fingers, and avoiding the weaker ring finger and little finger, or right hand over left is not altogether valid. So to say that one would never be able to develop skill & dexterity in the left hand does not explain why classical violinists and fiddlers use their left hand to play the fingerboards of their instruments. Violins can be made the other way around, but are very rarely made that way. If there were good reasons to do so, it would be done. True, there are some "left-handed" violinists & fiddlers, but they are no better than the others. The C# in question would not likely ever require the dexterity as the whole fingerboard of a fiddle or violin. However, the placement you advocate does have merits.

[bill_mchale]

LAfidel: "This doesn't make sense for a couple of reasons. First, most people are right-handed and will never be able to develop the prehensile skill and dexterity in the left hand that they possess on the dominant side."

 

Response: First, let me say that I agree that a press F# is handy at times. It can be placed in several locations, and the one you describe is a very workable option. However, the argument that I've heard about finger choices for playing notes, i.e. using the stronger fingers, and avoiding the weaker ring finger and little finger, or right hand over left is not altogether valid. So to say that one would never be able to develop skill & dexterity in the left hand does not explain why classical violinists and fiddlers use their left hand to play the fingerboards of their instruments. Violins can be made the other way around, but are very rarely made that way. If there were good reasons to do so, it would be done. True, there are some "left-handed" violinists & fiddlers, but they are no better than the others. The C# in question would not likely ever require the dexterity as the whole fingerboard of a fiddle or violin. However, the placement you advocate does have merits.

 

I would say that the single most important reason for a press F# is to make it much easier to play EF#G triplets. These are fairly doable with higher F# since it only takes one change in bellows direction, but the lower one is much harder to pull off smoothly. Form normal playing, I have never had much of a problem playing the F# with my pinky.

 

Just a thought, but the G-Row style of playing of which you are a proponent Frank, and of course which is how Chris Droney plays pretty much demands the use of all 4 fingers of the left hand. Indeed it is much more demanding on the left hand than it is the right hand. Yet, it hasn't stopped people playing this style from playing some truely brilliant music. Music that is impossible to duplicate exactly with playing across the rows.

 

--

Bill

[Phantom Button]

On a 30 button instrument I wouldn't do any alteration myself outside of the C#/C# button on the accidental row index finger button on the right hand. I like having the first 3 buttons of the accidental row matching on both sides with the exception of the one C# I just mentioned. I wouldn’t want to alter those notes because I use them quite often, and especially when playing in A major.

 

It's true that the left hand is getting a great deal of the work compared to the right hand, especially on the wee and ring fingers. The wee finger is responsible for the very important F#, but much can be done to compensate for this. As far as melodic triplets that run from D to F# there are direction changes and bellow technique that can be employed among with a careful selection of where you're getting the D. The F# button is D on the push, and on the ring finger pull on the C row. You can execute this triplet with only one bellow direction change with satisfactory results. Other triplets can be executed in a variety of ways, but currently I prefer what I call the 'Phantom Button' approach which in effect puts an F# button just above the accidental row of your right hand.

 

I have a 36 button instrument and it came with an F# on the push on the G row just to the right of my left hand index finger. I changed the note on the pull of that same button to be E since there's no pulled E on the left side. I rarely use these notes for melody unless it's a waltz or planxty, but I do frequently use them for chords.

Edited January 30, 2007 by The Phantom Button

[Bruce McCaskey]

When I acquired Carroll #6 last year, I found that Wally had customized the layout to replace the standard C#3/D#3 on key 17 of the right accidental row with F#2/D#3.

I have a Dipper County Clare with this setup. I experimented a bit with it when I first acquired it and found the additional F# did indeed facilitate certain note combinations, but ultimately I virtually abandoned using that F#. I have additional instruments in C/G and other tunings and none of the rest have the same sort of setup for this button and I decided it was better to learn to work with the standard layout F# position so that I could play all in the same way.

[Wally Carroll]

I find it puzzling that the standard Anglo concertina layout has only one F#2 and 3 C#3's.

 

Hi Laura,

you may have been thinking of my standard layout when you made this comment. A standard 30 button Jeffries has only two C#s and Wheatstones/Lachenals have only 1. The first two buttons on the Jeffries accidental row are (Push/Pull) D#/C# & C#/D#. On a Wheatstone they are C#/D# & A/G.

 

On my instruments, the standard layout is: C#/C# & C#/D#. This is based on the Jeffries layout with the addition of an extra C# in place of the push D# on the first button. Because I rarely use the D#, I find that an extra C# gives me more options and also makes the instrument easy to approach for players of both Jeffries and Wheatstone/Lachenal systems.

 

When I acquired Carroll #6 last year, I found that Wally had customized the layout to replace the standard C#3/D#3 on key 17 of the right accidental row with F#2/D#3. What a versatile improvement this has turned out to be!

 

This is something that was added at the request of the original owner of your instrument and basically comes from Colin Dipper's Co. Clare setup. I have this same setup on a Dipper that I own but for the same reasons that Bruce mentions and also because I didn't like hearing the F# come from the opposite end of the instrument, I never really used it. I also felt that the note sounded a little less full when played on the right side which I believe is caused by a combination of the smaller chamber size on the right side and the reed now being a push note. Probably not a big deal if used to replace the standard (left side) F# in fast note combinations but I would prefer the bigger sound of the standard F# for most playing.

 

I too find some note sequences (particularly those involving the "triangle of death," i.e. D(pull), F# & A, or combinations of these notes along with the E and/or low B ) quite tiring, and so spent a considerable amount of time trying to rework the fingering. One setup I did like, which Greg mentioned, is putting the F# in place of the F natural (same octave). For Irish music, primarily in the keys of G, D and even A, this actually worked quite well and eliminated much of the difficulty with fast passages involving these notes. My problem however is that, these days, most of my playing occurs when I am tuning a newly completed standard layout instrument which forces me away from the new setup. As a result I was never really able to fully commit to and master the new system. I have now given it up and returned these notes to standard on my instrument. I do, however, think it is a valid system for someone who primarily plays Irish music in the standard keys and perhaps it could also be helpful to someone who actually experiences physical pain when playing these note combinations.

Edited January 30, 2007 by Wally Carroll