Old Chestnut - Which One For A Singer?

[Missing Song]

Hello there,

 

I admit to some lurking over the last couple of years but as I only possess a something not quite worthy of the description of concertina I've declined to join in.

 

However...after watching my other half chose yet another super-guitar, I can contain my buying compulsion no longer and would love some advice, so hi there everyone.

 

I'm an alto, having spent many years singing in a rock band I've become increasingly interested in english and welsh folk music and have been singing accapella but would like to perform with accompaniment. Concertina and piano accordian and hurdy gurdy are things I love, and I originally purchased an accordian and was getting on well except for its weight, it was just too much for me. I really liked the drone effect I could create for some of the songs. I bought a dreadful post war german anglo which has driven me to twiddle my thumbs rather than play it. I just don't know what to go for now but I know that my current model would look very attractive on an ebay listing.

 

Unfortunately now that my man has decided to use guitars as wall ornaments I definitely have to budget, I'd say 350gb pounds is my max. What sort of concertina, in your opinions (and by know I realise they are many and varied!) would work with a strong alto performing mainly 18th and 19th century english folk. If you suggest an english would you say a baritone or treble and why? Also what reason would you give for your choice of system. I would be really interested in your views and reasoning because this is as much for me about learning and moving forward as it is about playing.

 

thank you in advance

[timj]

If you like a drone, you might want to consider English system-- Drone gets chopped up on anglo, but is possibly too easy on english.

 

I started out playing anglo, which was quick for me, because I played harmonica. But I kept track of the bellows with my breathing. Soldiers Joy-- in-and-out-and-in-and-out-and in in in, e.g. or whatever it was, it's been so long-- so I never was able to sing convincingly with it cause my breathing was all messed up.

 

On the other hand it was a good four years of playing English before I could relax enough to sing, too.

 

timj

 

 

 

Hello there,

 

I admit to some lurking over the last couple of years but as I only possess a something not quite worthy of the description of concertina I've declined to join in.

 

However...after watching my other half chose yet another super-guitar, I can contain my buying compulsion no longer and would love some advice, so hi there everyone.

 

I'm an alto, having spent many years singing in a rock band I've become increasingly interested in english and welsh folk music and have been singing accapella but would like to perform with accompaniment. Concertina and piano accordian and hurdy gurdy are things I love, and I originally purchased an accordian and was getting on well except for its weight, it was just too much for me. I really liked the drone effect I could create for some of the songs. I bought a dreadful post war german anglo which has driven me to twiddle my thumbs rather than play it. I just don't know what to go for now but I know that my current model would look very attractive on an ebay listing.

 

Unfortunately now that my man has decided to use guitars as wall ornaments I definitely have to budget, I'd say 350gb pounds is my max. What sort of concertina, in your opinions (and by know I realise they are many and varied!) would work with a strong alto performing mainly 18th and 19th century english folk. If you suggest an english would you say a baritone or treble and why? Also what reason would you give for your choice of system. I would be really interested in your views and reasoning because this is as much for me about learning and moving forward as it is about playing.

 

thank you in advance

[OLDNICKILBY]

Buy a Tenor Treble

Sell some guitars ,because for your budget you will only get rubbish and the old adage is still true "You can't polish a turd"

A tenor gives you the range for most voices unless you have a really deep voice

Keep the a cappella going you can't get better!

[PeterT]

I'm an alto, having spent many years singing in a rock band I've become increasingly interested in english and welsh folk music and have been singing accapella but would like to perform with accompaniment. Concertina and piano accordian and hurdy gurdy are things I love, and I originally purchased an accordian and was getting on well except for its weight, it was just too much for me.

You could very gently point your other half in the direction of the current thread about Anglo availability; I hope that his guitars get taken down and used regularly!

 

I'm interested that you have quoted both English and Welsh Folk Music. Are you thinking specifically song, or tunes as well? If it's just song, the suggestion of the English system could be right for you. If, by mentioning Hurdy Gurdy, you like a drone effect, then an Anglo, with drone button, might better suit tunes.

 

Where abouts are you based, and whose music has influenced you, so far?

 

Regards,

Peter.

[Missing Song]

"You can't polish a turd"

 

 

Oh blush me! I see what you're saying though. I know I could afford a decent one in a couple of years time, but I can't really justify it with four kids to shoe, not at least until I am relativley proficient. Check out any car boot sale to see how many unused 'turds' and gems of any given description exist in every house in the country (whichever country you live in, I feel assured it's the same the world over).

 

Keep the a cappella going you can't get better!

 

I love a cappella but it is a real skill to keep audience attention over a long period. I find it works remarkably well between accompanied songs or instrumentals. A good silence is as striking as a good sound.

 

(edited because I really didn't have a clue what happened when I pressed the button!)

Edited November 3, 2006 by Missing Song

[Missing Song]

You could very gently point your other half in the direction of the current thread about Anglo availability; I hope that his guitars get taken down and used regularly!

 

I would do but he's too busy making his own musical way. We come from very different musical backgrounds. He is blues, punk and heavy metal and mine is, well it's not! He is very encouraging of me and my music and would happily let me spent zillions on a concertina I just have to be practical, I hold the purse strings. He does use his guitars very regularly and writes some beautiful songs but without me pinning him to the ground and threatening him I know he'd buy more.

 

I'm interested that you have quoted both English and Welsh Folk Music. Are you thinking specifically song, or tunes as well? If it's just song, the suggestion of the English system could be right for you. If, by mentioning Hurdy Gurdy, you like a drone effect, then an Anglo, with drone button, might better suit tunes.

 

I think the Hurdy Gurdy is such a fantastic instrument, I do like the drone effect and I'll have one one day, when Father Christmas remembers me again. I am undecided whether I need the drone effect I just know it's something I like. I am thinking specifically of song. I want to be able to write songs as well as accompany traditional songs. I wrote all the songs in my last band by playing chords on the keyboard and explaining what I wanted and let the other musicians fill in the arrangement, it was very frustrating because I couldn't always explain what I meant and often ended up with a version of what was in my head. I miss that outlet though and I think becoming confident with an instrument is my answer.

 

 

 

Where abouts are you based, and whose music has influenced you, so far?

 

Regards,

Peter.

 

 

I was bought up in Wales and just about still live here. Lucky enough to live in Llangollen I'm surrounded by an international folk music and dance festival every year. We were taught bilingually and even though I came to Wales at the age of five from England I was soon involved in welsh folk dancing and singing and participated in many Eisteddfods (welsh festivals of music, dance, poetry etc). I sang welsh songs in an operatic society for in my early twenties, travelling around retirement and care homes. Most of the songs are designed for stirring choral singing - the welsh love a bit of company! I've occassionally revived some of those songs at the local folk club with a welsh speaking friend. I'm about to move to the West Midlands and would like to relate some of these songs to audiences in England because I think they don't go out of the country that much (unless you live in Patagonia).

 

I heard my first real English folk close up (by that I mean not at the festival I mentioned) when I went to see Norma Waterson and Martin Carthy. I'd heard 'liza Carthy play in a radio session a few days earlier and she mentioned a local gig. I got tickets and saw all three of them and was moved by their complete passion, particularly Norma's hearty renditions of songs about love lost. I've since bought some early waterson recordings. I picked up a collection of songs gathered by Cecil Sharpe and have been playing around with them since. I like some modern folk but prefer fusion type folk, when it's mixed with punk, rock or other. I think some political folk is fantastic. I am fond of Billy Bragg and Blythe Power. I'm off to see Seth Lakeman next month though I think he's a mite overproduced. I like Scotland's Karine Polwart and have just discovered and love the sound of Bellowhead.

 

Nice to meet you!

Deborah

[PeterT]

I was bought up in Wales and just about still live here. Lucky enough to live in Llangollen I'm surrounded by an international folk music and dance festival every year. We were taught bilingually and even though I came to Wales at the age of five from England I was soon involved in welsh folk dancing and singing and participated in many Eisteddfods (welsh festivals of music, dance, poetry etc). I sang welsh songs in an operatic society for in my early twenties, travelling around retirement and care homes. Most of the songs are designed for stirring choral singing - the welsh love a bit of company! I've occassionally revived some of those songs at the local folk club with a welsh speaking friend. I'm about to move to the West Midlands and would like to relate some of these songs to audiences in England because I think they don't go out of the country that much (unless you live in Patagonia).

Hi Deborah,

 

Llangollen; what a wonderful place , and you are about to leave . I was last there in 2002, for the Hill Climb up the Horseshoe Pass (I used to race bikes, up to this year). From the start at the Brittania Inn up to the finish just before the left hand bend near the summit, I managed 13min 52sec placing me 51st out of 68 (not bad for an "old" man). Winning time was 9min 23sec.

 

I thought about attending the International Eisteddfod, this year, but didn't get around to it. Maybe one year in the near future.

 

On the subject of the concertina (oops, nearly forgot!) it could be that a Duet system might be your best way forward. Something in the 55/62 key range. £ for £, you probably get more concertina than either English or Anglo. Pretty good for singing, and capable of a wide range of music. Drone effect should be relatively easy, with practice.

 

Regards,

Peter.

[David Barnert]

My usual advice on the "which type of concertina..." question is to find out what the person whose playing first made you think you might want one was playing and go for it. From reading your opening post, it sounds to me like you'd proabaly do nicely with an english. I agree with the others, however, that you'll likely be disappointed (if not frustrated) with anything you can get in your price range.

[Missing Song]

From reading your opening post, it sounds to me like you'd proabaly do nicely with an english. I agree with the others, however, that you'll likely be disappointed (if not frustrated) with anything you can get in your price range.

 

 

I know that I'm not going to get some grand old dame for that money, I am a realist. I spotted the Jackie tenor english a while back, I was a bit dubious because of the chinese manufacture but I have noticed some relatively positive reviews of it. I daren't take advice from Hobgoblin, which is my local folk store in the midlands, simply because I believe they were the importers of my current monstrosity in past years. They may only advise in a biased way. There seems little point in buying a baby in need of renovation though because it defies the point of having a budget if you force yourself into a corner where you can't stick to it.

[chris]

It depends how practical you are and whether you are prepared to buy one in less than 100% condition and have a go at restoring it yourself. Can be done, and may get a reasonable concertina for your money (whichever type you end up with) there is lots of advice and help to be had on these forums

chris

[chris]

Think I was typing while you posted good luck whichever way you go

chris

[Missing Song]

It depends how practical you are and whether you are prepared to buy one in less than 100% condition and have a go at restoring it yourself. Can be done, and may get a reasonable concertina for your money (whichever type you end up with) there is lots of advice and help to be had on these forums

chris

 

 

Hi Chris, I'm very practical, I can do all sorts of things. I have had a look at a few of the 'build your own' guides and in my retirement I could probably find a great deal of pleasure in it. However with a business to run, four children and a very bouncy dog I dont' really think I can do it justice. I have so many half finished projects round the house it would make my gran spin in her grave. Jumpers with no arms, leatherwork, half finished packets of biscuits you name it I don't get round to finishing it (well, maybe the biscuits...). It's not for lack of desire, just time. I'd rather spend what little time I do have actually playing and performing, not to mention the added cost of renovations that i mentioned earlier.

 

And just in case you are wondering where I've found time for this - my teens are away on holiday (phew).

[Missing Song]

Llangollen; what a wonderful place , and you are about to leave . I was last there in 2002, for the Hill Climb up the Horseshoe Pass (I used to race bikes, up to this year). From the start at the Brittania Inn up to the finish just before the left hand bend near the summit, I managed 13min 52sec placing me 51st out of 68 (not bad for an "old" man). Winning time was 9min 23sec.

 

Yes it is wonderful. I adore it. Whenever we drive home into the valley my heart just relaxes. I had a real Famous Five kind of childhood, my brother would be out on his bike from morning till night and my own sons are fortunate enough to do the same.

 

My father-in-law would cycle to the Horseshoe Pass from a Birmingham Cycle club many moons ago. You are most impressive Peter. I can't even look up the hill without feeling out of breath.

 

 

I thought about attending the International Eisteddfod, this year, but didn't get around to it. Maybe one year in the near future.

 

I recommend it for any folk lovers, concertina or otherwise, there is a wealth of music and weird and wonderful instruments to be experienced. I think it should be in the do before you die list.

 

 

On the subject of the concertina (oops, nearly forgot!) it could be that a Duet system might be your best way forward. Something in the 55/62 key range. £ for £, you probably get more concertina than either English or Anglo. Pretty good for singing, and capable of a wide range of music. Drone effect should be relatively easy, with practice.

 

Oh yes, we were weren't we...sorry, we did digress. The duet sounds interesting. I haven't had much in the way of experience in listening to a duet. I have been told there's a concertina/accordian specialist shop in B'ham so I may go and have a chat.

[jon melville]

Have a look in Hobgoblin in Brum, they have some nice English concertinas in at the moment.

 

I have always found Hobgoblin pretty decent and honest; I would imagine they sold you the previous one because it was the best you could get for the money (and bear in mind £350 doesn't get you very much); they do not tend to "push product" at all.

 

English concertinas are currently the best in terms of value for money, everyone seems to be asking a fortune for Anglos and Duets have always been more expensive. I have seen playable, reasonable Lachenals for £400-450, but only rarely.

 

I would always recommend buying second hand. I have not yet played what I would regard as a decent new concertina except one which cost more than my car!

 

Hope this helps...

[PeterT]

Have a look in Hobgoblin in Brum, they have some nice English concertinas in at the moment.

Here's the Hobgoblin link; click on "secondhand list" (which, hopefully, will be fairly up to date), and search for all shops rather than just Birmingham:

 

http://www.hobgoblin.com/local/shops/index.html

 

It might also be worth ringing Chris Algar (Barleycorn Concertinas) to see whether he has anything in your price range:

 

http://www.concertina.co.uk/

 

Or, indeed, Marcus Music, as he might have one or two "used" instruments in stock:

 

http://www.marcusmusic.co.uk/

 

Regards,

Peter.

Edited November 3, 2006 by PeterT

[Missing Song]

Have a look in Hobgoblin in Brum, they have some nice English concertinas in at the moment.

 

 

I feel awful suggesting that they might not be unbiased. I have been in there before and they do seem like decent people, I guess I felt that it was better talking to a lot of enthusiastic concertina players than one shop assistant no matter how well informed they are. My current model is not from them directly, it's simply one of the styles that they did import at one time.

 

Thanks for the lists and links I'm definitely looking out. You lot are very helpful, but then I knew you would be. I considered giving Chris Algar a ring the other day, I've noticed him advertising in the Readers Digest and I've been on his website before. Marcus music is new on me so I'll take a look there, thank you.

 

Matt and I had a talk today and as I would have predicted he said "spend thousands", god love him. One of the things we have thought about is the resale value of an instrument if I don't get a worthwhile grip on playing. If I buy a budget model I doubt it will do anything other than lose value when it comes to resale, but I'm probably going to hold on to the value with a decent make/model. I know that sounds defeatist reasoning but like I say I have to be practical and realistic. I may not take to it. Hmm, quandries. I could always sell one of the kids.

[Paul Read]

Have a look in Hobgoblin in Brum, they have some nice English concertinas in at the moment.

 

 

One of the things we have thought about is the resale value of an instrument if I don't get a worthwhile grip on playing. If I buy a budget model I doubt it will do anything other than lose value when it comes to resale, but I'm probably going to hold on to the value with a decent make/model. I know that sounds defeatist reasoning but like I say I have to be practical and realistic. I may not take to it. Hmm, quandries. I could always sell one of the kids.

 

A good vintage instrument will certainly hold its value and would likely increase (as long as you buy at the right price).

[David Barnert]

I could always sell one of the kids.

I nearly made the same suggestion several posts back, but I don't know you well enough.